CAREBEAR LUVVA Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, LWOLeN said: To get back on topic. As discussed in the below video: I just wonder: âWhat is actually fair in pro wrestling?â âIsnât it just poorly executed improvisation from Sha and Bodom after a messed up finish?â Improvisation happens all the time in pro wrestling.... Itâs a big part of your job description as a wrestler and referee. Itâs not choreographed ballet. Shouldnât the ref had understood that he needed to co-operate in the improvisation as this could always somewhat be part of his job? And if improvisation is always a possibility in this line of work, shouldnât refs always be prepared to take an unexpected bump? Are you truly a âprofessionalâ referee if you are not able to bump? Who was actually the unprofessional one in this case!? The Ref who didnât train himself and couldnât improvise or the wrestlers who actually did? Where is the line in pro wrestling? /Devils Advocate There aren't enough words for how stupid this is. Edited September 19, 2019 by CAREBEAR LUVVA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dart Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 3 hours ago, LWOLeN said:  To get back on topic. As discussed in the below video: I just wonder: âWhat is actually fair in pro wrestling?â âIsnât it just poorly executed improvisation from Sha and Bodom after a messed up finish?â Improvisation happens all the time in pro wrestling.... Itâs a big part of your job description as a wrestler and referee. Itâs not choreographed ballet. Shouldnât the ref had understood that he needed to co-operate in the improvisation as this could always somewhat be part of his job? And if improvisation is always a possibility in this line of work, shouldnât refs always be prepared to take an unexpected bump? Are you truly a âprofessionalâ referee if you are not able to bump? Who was actually the unprofessional one in this case!? The Ref who didnât train himself and couldnât improvise or the wrestlers who actually did? Where is the line in pro wrestling? /Devils Advocate  You're an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted September 19, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, LWOLeN said: ...âWhat is actually fair in pro wrestling?â And if improvisation is always a possibility in this line of work, shouldnât refs always be prepared to take an unexpected bump? Are you truly a âprofessionalâ referee if you are not able to bump? /Devils Advocate  Itâs wrestling not Whose Line is it Anyway? Iâve missed the point a lot over the years but fucking hell. This is a shit take Edited September 19, 2019 by Hannibal Scorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bellenda Carlisle Posted September 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2019 I love seeing the exact same post 3 times in a row, great takes lads, thanks for quoting the whole thing each time too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted September 19, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bellenda Carlisle said: I love seeing the exact same post 3 times in a row, great takes lads, thanks for quoting the whole thing each time too. More then welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LWOLeN Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) Calm down. I'm just taking the WWE Jerry McDevitt stance to trigger discussion. Hence the Devils Advocate tag in my previous post. Performers take their craftmanship seriously and as it is extremely high risk, so incompetence can be really frowned upon. A big mistake (as viewed by the wrestlers) can be met with disgust. It's the whole 'getting broken in' thing right? You hear it in every WWE doc. Veterans 'correcting' rookies. These performers are under high emotional stress in that ring and when a finish goes bad I can understand that they can choose to work 'on the fly'. Looking at the footage, Sha Samuels did everything to protect the ref. Protecting the other is the fine line between real and fake violence. Pro refs should be able to work on the fly and take a bump. Bodom acted reckless though and that's why he will never last. Good riddance. Edited September 19, 2019 by LWOLeN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted September 19, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2019 You canât work on the fly if the person doesnât know they are expected to work on the fly. That for me is the main problem. This wasnât a botched move, it was completely unplanned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPumaPants Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: You canât work on the fly if the person doesnât know they are expected to work on the fly. That for me is the main problem. This wasnât a botched move, it was completely unplanned This. The fact is, the referee only did his job, in counting a pin. They could have worked on the fly with the other team, to get done whatever it was they were so angry about not having done, or whatever... But you're missing a big point. The crowd aren't to know whether or not a 3 count is the planned finish (unless it was something with absolutely no chance of being a finish, like that leg sweep the flippy lads do), so there's literally no reason to involve the referee at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted September 19, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2019 When I ring announced, twice I was involved in altercations with wrestlers. Both times we chatted backstage about what was going to happen. Thatâs all they needed to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPumaPants Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Or they needed to not fuck up, and then assault someone who wasn't at fault in any way. Would have been nice if the promoter didn't lie about it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2019 23 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: You canât work on the fly if the person doesnât know they are expected to work on the fly. That for me is the main problem. This wasnât a botched move, it was completely unplanned A ref should be able to work on the fly. Come on, now. Let's not be dense here.I can see the point that LWO is reaching for, he's just not explaining himself very well. Whilst a lot of a match can be planned, a lot of it relies on improv, instinct and calling stuff on-the-fly. This involves the ref, who is also a vital part of the match, and should be trained to take bumps (and most of them are). They should be prepared to take bump if something goes awry. It's all situational though, obviously, and a lot of trust is involved. I've not seen the video of the slam (I've only seen the Bodom assault, because really that's the most important thing here), but did the ref indicate to Sha that he didn't want to be slammed? Did he verbally say no or indicate that he didn't want to work? Did he sandbag Sha? Were any of these indicators clear enough that Sha should've noticed this, ixnayed the slam, and just executed a simple worked punch instead? Or just done nothing at all and let the ref scarper? I feel sorry for Sha; he was trying to work with the ref, but Bodom legit assaulted the ref. Yet Sha is still taking a lot of unnecessary flack. Even after seeing the video of Bodom battering and crushing him against the apron, the ref is still going all-in on Sha. I feel for the ref. Really I do. He's been caught in an extremely shit situation and he's just doing his best to get back on his feet, but all this talk of 'unplanned moves' and the refs role in wresting, as well as still shovelling blame on Sha instead of solely on Bodom, all of this sets a sad precedent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannibal Man Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) shame the guy in the picture was involved because I only saw him and yer man for the first time at Rev Pro in Salford and liked that someone somewhere in wrestling finally combined Joel Gertner and Demolition Edited September 20, 2019 by Cannibal Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted September 19, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2019 @Accident Prone a ref is there to ref a match. If heâs not expecting to do actual bumps, thatâs no kosher is it? But I agree Sha is getting more flack then he should over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: @Accident Prone a ref is there to ref a match. If heâs not expecting to do actual bumps, thatâs no kosher is it? But I agree Sha is getting more flack then he should over it. A ref's job is more than counting the fall. He's arguably the third man in a singles match, the fifth man in a tag, etc. He's communicating info, he's part of the story, he's part of the match. Taking a bump here or there is part of it, as is stuff being called on the fly. But it's also a wrestler's job to know if someone is uncomfortable in a situation, and maybe Sha didn't realise that. I'm not keen on going down this path where every bump and interaction is pre-planned; it stifles creativity and improv, which is what makes live wrestling so much fun. Bryce Remsurg is incredible at adapting to situations and improvisation, and that's why he's recognised as one of the best referees in pro wrestling. This is a lesson in body language, anger management, communication and consent. That's what we need to focus on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Surf Digby Posted September 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2019 36 minutes ago, Accident Prone said: I've not seen the video of the slam (I've only seen the Bodom assault, because really that's the most important thing here), but did the ref indicate to Sha that he didn't want to be slammed? Did he verbally say no or indicate that he didn't want to work? Did he sandbag Sha? What was he wearing? Did he imply consent with his body language? You don't bump a ref unless they know you're going to bump them, the same as with anyone else involved with a show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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