Things that you know will be shit

[SuperBacon]

"Whooooooo remembers Nessie???? And Fortean Times????" 

[BomberPat]

I still have a Fortean Times subscription tbf

[Carbomb]

51 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

These days, I'm more of the belief that all conspiracy theories are, in their way, as dangerous as each other. Not believing in the Moon landings means that you're prepared to believe in government-level cover-ups on an unimaginable scale, and that you're prepared to disbelieve the word of experts, scientists, and so on. If you believe that JFK wasn't killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, then you're accepting not only another colossal cover-up, but also that there are forces at work in either American or international government that are well above the office of the President, and have the motive and the means to have the President killed and leave no paper trail. Believing in that sort of thing is not a world-view that's going to begin or end with the Moon landing - it shouldn't naturally follow that someone who has "reasonable doubts" about whether NASA went to the Moon also believes in Bigfoot, and that people get abducted by aliens, and that there's something weird about the Pyramids, yet you often see a pattern of that kind of out-there belief, because it's never just one thing. It's not a measured questioning of the "official story", it's a complete world-view.

I had a conversation with a mate of mine about 9/11 conspiracies recently, and he said something about how he didn't believe that it was an inside job, but that he would be prepared to accept that the American government were tipped off about it and didn't act. Because that's sort of compromising and meeting in the middle, it has the feel of a rational and considered position, but it's just as much a conspiracy as saying that it was entirely an inside job. By agreeing that there is a middle ground with these ideas means that on some level you're accepting them as rational and valid, but they're not two sides of an argument - one is truth, one is fiction. By conceding ground to even the most seemingly harmless or silly of them, we risk empowering all of them.

To that end, I think something like Ancient Aliens or Graham Hancock's Netflix show is just as dangerous in its way as the more obviously incendiary conspiracy theories like Pizzagate. There are people I was friends with on Facebook or Instagram who were at the posh hippy end of anti-vaxxer, and those are the same people I saw praising Graham Hancock's show for being "brave" enough to question the "official story", and how "it just goes to show how little they tell us". They're not fun any more, but I think actually we probably should have done more to recognise that they were always dangerous as fuck and then maybe we wouldn't be as far in this mess as we are.

My problem with the tinfoil hat type of conspiracy theory is that they enable establishment bodies to throw in real, actual conspiracies of greed, corruption, and imperialism in with the "JeWLIzards" types. The fucking Duanes of the world happily turn a blind eye to how Western governments have openly and deliberately destabilised and impoverished numerous countries around the world in order to perpetuate their hegemony, and give their mates in multinational corporations and lobbies even more unfair advantages than they do now, and then bang on about the Church of Satan running Hollywood, the Deep State, and fucking chemtrails.

But yeh - forget Pinochet and Mobutu; let's all talk about how Hillary's emails mean we should buy crypto and emancipate ourselves as freemen of the land.

[Merzbow]

 

[Carbomb]

The name "Nicolas Winding Refn" has always looked to me like someone's swearing while saying his name.

[Mr_Danger]

My 80 year old nan adding me on WhatsApp. It begins with her sending me fairly inoffensive but extremely unfunny Dail Mailish memes and will inevitably end with me being disowned by my family for thinking it was funny to ‘Omar’ her. 

[BomberPat]

1 hour ago, Carbomb said:

My problem with the tinfoil hat type of conspiracy theory is that they enable establishment bodies to throw in real, actual conspiracies of greed, corruption, and imperialism in with the "JeWLIzards" types. The fucking Duanes of the world happily turn a blind eye to how Western governments have openly and deliberately destabilised and impoverished numerous countries around the world in order to perpetuate their hegemony, and give their mates in multinational corporations and lobbies even more unfair advantages than they do now, and then bang on about the Church of Satan running Hollywood, the Deep State, and fucking chemtrails.

But yeh - forget Pinochet and Mobutu; let's all talk about how Hillary's emails mean we should buy crypto and emancipate ourselves as freemen of the land.

Yeah, it's the distinction between actual conspiracy and conspiracy theory, or I suppose around "conspiracism" as a worldview.

There are obviously actual conspiracies that have taken place over the years, and likely theories about other conspiracies that we don't know about for sure that could turn out to be true, but I think the distinction between that and capital C Conspiracy Theories is that the latter tends to assume an end goal, or a kind of joined up thinking that doesn't exist in real life. 

To a Duane, something like the obvious connections between government and multinational corporations is a sign of a unified agenda, they're obviously working together toward some greater end. Whereas in reality, there's no end goal, corruption is its own reward.

[SuperBacon]

Fuck off.

[deathrey]

I can't believe a company would actually allow something like that to be on display! What absolute knobheads.

[Guest]

[Mikeymike83]

1 hour ago, deathrey said:

I can't believe a company would actually allow something like that to be on display! What absolute knobheads.

My hairdressers have similar put up, but it ends with '...but it helps!'.

Shame really, cos they do a bloody good job of my hair. 

[Chris B]

23 hours ago, BomberPat said:

It's something I think about a lot. AbBelieving in that sort of thing is not a world-view that's going to begin or end with the Moon landing - it shouldn't naturally follow that someone who has "reasonable doubts" about whether NASA went to the Moon also believes in Bigfoot, and that people get abducted by aliens, and that there's something weird about the Pyramids, yet you often see a pattern of that kind of out-there belief, because it's never just one thing. It's not a measured questioning of the "official story", it's a complete world-view.

I think there's a quasi-religious aspect to it. It's not about individual conspiracies, but it's about a more general 'real way the world works'. I started realising this when I saw some market stalls selling conspiracy stuff alongside meditation and religious stuff. 

I reckon a lot of it is about people trying to understand and make sense of inequality and why their lives are shit - it's easier if you can blame God or a vast conspiracy that means people like them have it easier while people like you struggle unfairly. And if you wander away from classic religion, then you have this religion-level belief in conspiracy theories that plugs a whole load of the same 'easy answers'.

[BomberPat]

17 hours ago, Chris B said:

I think there's a quasi-religious aspect to it. It's not about individual conspiracies, but it's about a more general 'real way the world works'. I started realising this when I saw some market stalls selling conspiracy stuff alongside meditation and religious stuff. 

I reckon a lot of it is about people trying to understand and make sense of inequality and why their lives are shit - it's easier if you can blame God or a vast conspiracy that means people like them have it easier while people like you struggle unfairly. And if you wander away from classic religion, then you have this religion-level belief in conspiracy theories that plugs a whole load of the same 'easy answers'.

Completely, it's all about easy answers to complicated questions. 

Even if you think everything is fucked, it's more reassuring to think that somebody is in charge, even if you believe that somebody to be your enemy, than to acknowledge that in truth the world is chaotic and things happen for no reason at all. There's a lot more to why conspiracy theories take hold than that, but in terms of seeing it as a unified world-view, I think you're absolutely right.

I read a pop-neuroscience book years ago, which argued that one of the most important shifts in evolution is the ability to recognise patterns and connections, and a lot of seemingly irrational belief could be done to neurological misfires where we recognise connections where none exist, because from an evolutionary perspective it's more advantageous if you're going to get it wrong to draw a false positive than a false negative. The example it gave was that if early man heard rustling in the undergrowth and thought, "that's probably not a tiger", and it was a tiger, then that's a false negative and the likely result is that they killed by a tiger - but if they heard rustling and thought, "that probably is a tiger" and it wasn't, the only downside is that you're wrong, but you're wrong and still alive. Our world has become infinitely more complex, but we're stuck with the same mammal brain that keeps on recognising rustling as tigers.

[Gus Mears]

Replace one word in [piece of media] with [another 'hilarious' word].

[Hannibal Scorch]