GeronimoJacksBeard Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) Nothing to see here Edited January 25, 2021 by GeronimoJacksBeard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Pat was in a place of power for a lot of his time there, pretty much the number two guy in the company behind Vince. Who the hell was going to give him shit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 25, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted January 25, 2021 Patterson was, by all accounts, the sort of guy to lean into that kind of humour and play it up to himself as well. Whether through self-preservation or genuinely not giving a shit either way, it's impossible to say. But we've probably all met people who have said it's okay for them to tell racist or homophobic jokes because their black or gay friend tells them too, and often find that the black or gay friend has a very different interpretation of what's going on. I don't want to delve too much into armchair psychology, but there was a Tweet going around talking about how Kanyon pitched a storyline of him coming out, and it was nixed and then shortly thereafter he was booked in the Boy George angle, despite not having been on TV in months - and that it led to The Undertaker, the reliable, safe pair of hands locker room leader, braining him with a chair as hard as he could and giving him a concussion. It's hard not to read between a few lines there, in terms of the timing, the specifics of giving the guy who had just came out a Boy George comedy bit, and what we now know about the Undertaker. And that's the stuff that played out on TV, not however many times Kanyon would have heard homophobic language and slurs - not necessarily directed at him - in dressing rooms, in tour buses, in the gym, from fans, and so on. I'm not saying wrestling would have been uniquely to blame, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that wrestling would have been far from a welcoming environment for someone who was already going through all the internal strife of questioning their sexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeronimoJacksBeard Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 13 minutes ago, Merzbow said: Pat was in a place of power for a lot of his time there, pretty much the number two guy in the company behind Vince. Who the hell was going to give him shit? Point being - If that culture of wrestling was such that it would cause a gay gentleman to struggle with their sexuality to such a degree, would Pat have ever ended up in such a position...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) The Kanyon/Boy George thing is absolutely something done to rib a gay bloke in a big absolutely not gay at all wrestling business. It just smacks of it and very something you'd get in early 2003. Look how a gay wedding and lesbians were portrayed a season prior in the autumn. It achieved nothing and was way too on the nose. I think Kanyon was an unfortunate mix in a guy who absolutely loved, LOVED wrestling but would have been way happier and mentally balanced and maybe able to deal with what was really a big complex issue for his life has he not been in a locker room with some of the lot walking around backstage in 2003 WWE. Shame he was so talented to be honest. I don't think he'd have actually been happier out of wrestling though. He was too good to be told not and seemed so dedicated to it. He'd have probably been alive had he'd got into it a lot later maybe. I dunno I've just always felt terrible about how it ended up for Kanyon. EDIT: Didn't see Pat who wrote it better and more clearly. Read that bit. Edited January 25, 2021 by Chili Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlewis Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 I’m not 100% on this but wasn’t the Boy George thing the last (or close to) time Kanyon appeared on WWE TV before he was let go? If so, comes out as gay, dressed as Boy George, purposely concussed and then sacked is a fucking terrible look for the company and, let’s face it, The Undertaker too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted January 25, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted January 25, 2021 39 minutes ago, GeronimoJacksBeard said: Point being - If that culture of wrestling was such that it would cause a gay gentleman to struggle with their sexuality to such a degree, would Pat have ever ended up in such a position...? Aye. That's a good point. It's not like Patterson was unique either. Jim Barnett managed to be incredibly successful as well. Let's face it, the wrestling business traditionally accepted anybody that would make money. Jimmy Snuka fucking killed a woman and was still getting bookings until shortly before he died. Kanyon's sexuality was an open secret in WCW but he was still a big part of the company. Out of the entire roster, he was the guy they trusted to represent them in Hollywood for Ready to Rumble. Granted, the movie was shit but it was still a massive show of faith him. Same with him working as an unofficial talent scout. I can't imagine maybe people in WCW were able to go directly to Bischoff, etc, and get people jobs. I started re-reading Kanyon's book this morning and I will say I definitely did do him a disservice by ignoring his mental health problems. It's easy to sit and think "He should've got over it" if you ignore the fact that his brain quite simply wouldn't let him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 25, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, danlewis said: I’m not 100% on this but wasn’t the Boy George thing the last (or close to) time Kanyon appeared on WWE TV before he was let go? If so, comes out as gay, dressed as Boy George, purposely concussed and then sacked is a fucking terrible look for the company and, let’s face it, The Undertaker too. It was his first TV appearance in about 18 months (though part of that was due to injury), and he never really did anything after. Looking on Cagematch, he did more than I remembered, but nothing that you'd expect to remember - he didn't make TV again for another three months, and then that was on Velocity. He had one Smackdown match (a 4 minute loss to Rey Mysterio), was in an APA Bar Room Brawl, but other than those two never bothered an A-show or B-show again, and never had anything in the way of a character or storyline. So they did just pick the one gay guy on the roster, just after he came out, to book as Boy George in an angle that made no sense, purely so the Undertaker could smash him in the head with a chair. It's hard to look at it any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 I recall him doing a match with Ultimo Dragon that I'm certain had some PPV set but no idea why they'd book that on a PPV at the time. The end of his run was him just doing jobs, right near the end he was doing jobs to the beta version of Spanky & London on Velocity with enhancement partners like they'd do some poor shit like Ronnie Garvin or Hercules when they couldn't be arsed but needed a solid hand. Creative definitely could have had something for Kanyon. Nonsense that release really. Once DDP was gone though did he have any mates around the place sticking up for him on Smackdown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 25, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Chili said: I recall him doing a match with Ultimo Dragon that I'm certain had some PPV set but no idea why they'd book that on a PPV at the time. it was on Heat, going by Cagematch, so may have been filmed the day of the PPV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just now, BomberPat said: it was on Heat, going by Cagematch, so may have been filmed the day of the PPV. Oh that makes sense now to me as Heat was recorded prior, knew it wasn't the Smackdown set in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUM Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 It's been a while since I've read the book but there's a line in it that has always stuck with me. I believe it's in the foreword and it's probably one of the only books that's managed to change my entire viewpoint on a certain subject. I used to always believe suicide was selfish and no-one could convince me otherwise till I read that Kanyon said how selfish it is to want someone to live a life that they hate and are miserable throughout. It's a line I've passed on to people and always bring to the table now with suicide discussions more prevalent than they've ever been. Kanyon will have died feeling worthless but I have no doubt people who have read his book will have taken some sort of learning from it and I only wish he had been alive to see that and how much worth he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 When I say FMW is surprising it's more down to it coming out of leftfield, compared to all the big US topics they have had. There's far, far too much they could cover for a single episode in my mind, the Victor/Pogo split in 1991 to form W*ING could be half an episode on it's own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Thesz Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Merzbow said: When I say FMW is surprising it's more down to it coming out of leftfield, compared to all the big US topics they have had. There's far, far too much they could cover for a single episode in my mind, the Victor/Pogo split in 1991 to form W*ING could be half an episode on it's own. Yeah; another one would be a Victor Quinones documentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 I'm happy that they are branching off into some Japanese stuff and hope it's received well so we might get more. Depending on of course if anyone is willing to talk, I bet there are some real horror stories from the Dojo system. Vice also got a surprising amount of access in Stardom for a doc so they are obviously well connected. Still amusing that when it came to talking about women in Japanese society they had to interview some random punk band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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