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The Smackers Thread


PowerButchi
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35 minutes ago, The King of Old School said:

I still can't get over that we're getting this version of Roman Reigns when there is nobody there to react to it 😂

 

Probably why they've done it now.   All the morons would be cheering him.   You only had to look at how many of the virtual audience were clapping when he won at Payback.

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Big E! What a man. That intensity. Jeez I can't wait for this Big E vs the Roman we have now. I've got a semi just thinking about it.

Wasn't too sold on Sasha's crying. Just wasn't sure where they were going with it. But I believed her by the end and I'm glad they had Bayley attack her. Not like she was at a far away location.

Roman/Jey continues to be a nice story to watch. Loving Roman's facials. He is so done with Use's shit. Heyman is fun to watch in the background too.

IC ladder match should be all kinds of awesome with those gents involved.

Good to see Nikki pick up some momentum. Wonder how her title match will go. Can't see her winning. Sasha has to take it. Guessing it'll be something Lexi related to cause her to lose.

Otis storyline continues to be a low point but at least it's usually mercifully short.

Bro. Fuck off.

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You say that, but I reckon Roman’s smashing through him in a couple of minutes in the middle of the show, with Drew v Orton or Keith going on last.

Not that Roman wouldn’t be willing, but having a competitive show against a perennial tag guy isn’t going to do anything for him, and I say that as someone who likes The Usos. Smashing him in a couple of minutes separates Roman from the pack and allows him to say that he’s always been better than the rest of them.

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A gutsy Jey performance forcing Roman to do him dirty wouldn't be the worst thing. Roman already thinks he's above everyone else. Having that little bit of cockyness opening the door to some of Jey's plucky underdog moves would be okay. It wouldn't hurt Roman in any way and keeps Jey strong. I don't think they need to completely sacrifice him. Plus it's not like he's a newbie on the scene with no credentials.

Edited by DavidB6937
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Yeah this feud clearly only exists to cement Roman's heel turn. Roman not taking Jey seriously, Jey getting the better of the big dog for a minute or two before Roman cheats and then destroys him with a chair is the way forward.

 

Fans already take Roman seriously as a main eventer, it's the heel turn that needs focusing on 

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1 hour ago, Duke said:

Fans already take Roman seriously as a main eventer, it's the heel turn that needs focusing on 

The problem with that attitude is it normally leads to every heel becoming an absolute fadge. Goes back to Steve Austin in 2001, if not further. Guys who are hard as fuck babyfaces are suddenly chicken shit heels because they're so one dimensional in what they present. There are exceptions but they tend to be spooked by those guys getting cheers. That's never a problem, the opposite is. Book your faces well and you can cope with a heel some fans like.

Edited by tiger_rick
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I’m not as sold on the Sasha/Bayley feud as most appear to be. Now the dust has settled on the turn it’s got the exact same fundamental flaw as Evolution turning on Randy Orton or The Authority turning on Seth Rollins.

Someone turning de facto babyface for no other reason than their heel friends turned on them always feels wonky to me. I’m supposed to root for you for the sole fact that your equally reprehensible mate got tired of you? Maybe I haven’t been paying enough attention, but had Sasha even been displaying any babyface tendencies? I know they’d been teasing animosity forever, but everyone tag team and faction in the company does that.

It leaves Sasha with such loser energy. Even the bad guys don’t like you. Frankly, looking at how everything has gone down, Bayley identifying Sasha’s failings and binning her off almost feels justified.

Are there any historical examples of a successful babyface turn that was rooted in one heel turning on the other?

Edited by Supremo
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22 hours ago, tiger_rick said:

The problem with that attitude is it normally leads to every heel becoming an absolute fadge. Goes back to Steve Austin in 2001, if not further. Guys who are hard as fuck babyfaces are suddenly chicken shit heels because they're so one dimensional in what they present. There are exceptions but they tend to be spooked by those guys getting cheers. That's never a problem, the opposite is. Book your faces well and you can cope with a heel some fans like.

I don't think that follows from the point I was making.

There's more than one type of heel, the problem that they often have with turns is they just assume chicken is the only one. You're right that they end up radically changing the guys character when they do that, but I'd argue thats mostly been a problem in face turns rather than heel. But that's not the same thing as cementing the turn, that's making a bad turn. Theyve not done that with Roman, they're making him play big timer. I'm not sure Steve Austin is a great example either, as I don't think the problem with his heel turn was his character work, which was tremendous, I think it was the opponents he had.

They want Roman's first opponent as champ to make clear that he has abandoned other alliances, that he doesn't care about his family and only himself. A 2 minute smash doesn't do that, it just makes Roman look dominant. He's already dominant,  he's Roman Reigns. He needs to betray Jey in some way, and the best way to do that is for him to not take Jey seriously (which is part of the build), Jey to surprise him and then him to cheat with a chair or something. Although hopefully it's not a DQ. That would be pants  

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WWE definitely have a problem with face and heel turns - too often a dominant babyface becomes reliant on outside interference and screwy tactics to win matches, and spends all their time running and hiding from their opponents, when maybe a week or two earlier they'd never back down from a challenge. There's a lack of character consistency. Similarly, with face turns, someone with a fairly defined character tends to become a one-note people pleaser or ersatz The Rock cracking jokes and hitting catchphrases in every promo.

Gorilla Monsoon used to hit a specific note on commentary that I think does away with so many of those complaints in just one line - he used to bemoan that certain heels cheated so much because they were good enough that they didn't have to. It should be abundantly clear that the heels aren't always cheating and taking shortcuts because it's the only way they can win, they're doing it because they can and because it makes their life easier. A heel is a dishonest wrestler, not a bad one.

Steve Austin as a heel tended to work because he didn't become a chicken, he became desperate. He wasn't running away from opponents because he couldn't beat them, but because he was scared they might be able to beat him. He was obsessive and delusional, because the only thing that mattered to him was the title, and he would stop at nothing to keep it. They really tried to cement that by having him brutalise Jim Ross shortly after his heel turn, and I think Jey Uso is the JR to Steve Austin's Roman Reigns here - he's there to signify that old relationships don't matter, all that matters is Roman Reigns. How they go about that will be interesting, but it's almost impossible to fuck up - the only way they could get it wrong is a heatless, clean match full of exchanging finishers and high spots, and ordinarily I'd think that would be exactly what to expect from WWE, the Heyman involvement makes me think it will be structured far more like a Brock Lesnar match. 

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