Paid Members Accident Prone Posted June 4, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: Aren't they all retired though? Liger is on his farewell tour, so he'll be finishing up next January. It all stems from a top 10 list he penned called "Top 10 Important Wrestlers In Japanese Pro Wrestling History' and he snubbed those three (along with the likes of Stan Hansen, Bull Nakano andĀ Ultimo Dragon) with an honourable mention, before leaping in head first with "NUMBER TEN: BULLET CLUB". Edited June 4, 2019 by Accident Prone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Who was his #1? Just out of curiosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted June 4, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, WyattSheepMask said: Who was his #1? Just out of curiosity The article has since been deleted but it was either Inoki or Rikiozan. I think Baba and Misawa were somewhere as well.Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted June 4, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) Reminds me of those shite NME/Q articles from the 90s, where you put the obvious ones in and put some current band in there who always does interviews for them. Top Bands of all time: 1. The Beatles 2. The Rolling Stones 3. Sleeper 4. Led Zeppelin Edited June 4, 2019 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshC Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Sleeper are better than Zep, mind. And the Stones, for my money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Accident Prone said: The article has since been deleted but it was either Inoki or Rikiozan. I think Baba and Misawa were somewhere as well.Ā If I was making that list, it'dĀ haveĀ to be Rikidozan. There wouldn't be a Japanese wrestling industry on that scale without him. Baba and Inoki were also incredibly important, so would put them joint second, as they were basically continuing Rikidozan's work but in their own two big companies. After that, it gets tricky, because there are just so many who were important. Tsuruta, Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, Taue, Akiyama in AJPW, but then you've also got Fujinami, Choshu, Liger, Chono, Hashimoto, and, of course, Mutoh/Great Muta in NJPW. Tenryu as well. Not to mention Tiger Mask(s), Ultimo Dragon, CIMA, and Great Sasuke. And that's before we even get to the gaijin like Stan Hansen, Big Van Vader, The Destroyer, Bruiser Brody, Bobo Brazil, Freddie Blassie, The Sheik, Don Leo Jonathan, Fritz von Erich, and Gene Kiniski. I know the Bullet Club have been very important recently, but when you take all those names into account, who made Japanese wrestling what it is today, it's difficult to see how they would rank in a top 10. I'd put Tanahashi, Okada, and possibly Naito ahead of them. I think I'd go with (but wouldn't be satisfied with) : 1. Rikidozan 2=Giant Baba 2=Antonio Inoki 3. Mitsuharu Misawa 4. Stan Hansen 5. Jushin Liger 6. Great Muta/Keiji Muto 7. Tatsumi Fujinami 8. Big Van Vader 9. Hiroshi Tanahashi 10. Riki Choshu Edited June 5, 2019 by Carbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted June 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) It really depends on what lens you consider "importance" through. Bullet Club were a vital part of NJPW opening up to the Western market, and if that's the angle you're taking, you could make an argument for at leastĀ someĀ iteration of Bullet Club making the list. More reasonably, I'd agree in principle with a lot of Carbomb's list, though. I'd probably shift Inoki more definitively above Baba, as I think the "Strong Style" influence filtering down into shoot promotions and later MMA has permeated far more than Baba's influence (though WWE from the early '00s onwards betrays a lot of King's Road influence in the way they structure big matches, ever since they brought Johnny Ace in), and I'd want to see The Destroyer make the top ten, and maybe try and find space for Satoru Sayama, Atsushi Onita, and a little more UWFi representation...but, again, it all depends what angle you approach it from. Rikidozan is inarguably number one, though - and I guess you could make arguments for Thesz, Gotch and Blassie in some sense too. No Karl Gotch, no NJPW as we know it. Edited June 5, 2019 by BomberPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, BomberPat said: It really depends on what lens you consider "importance" through. Bullet Club were a vital part of NJPW opening up to the Western market, and if that's the angle you're taking, you could make an argument for at leastĀ someĀ iteration of Bullet Club making the list. More reasonably, I'd agree in principle with a lot of Carbomb's list, though. I'd probably shift Inoki more definitively above Baba, as I think the "Strong Style" influence filtering down into shoot promotions and later MMA has permeated far more than Baba's influence (though WWE from the early '00s onwards betrays a lot of King's Road influence in the way they structure big matches, ever since they brought Johnny Ace in), and I'd want to see The Destroyer make the top ten, and maybe try and find space for Satoru Sayama, Atsushi Onita, and a little more UWFi representation...but, again, it all depends what angle you approach it from. Rikidozan is inarguably number one, though - and I guess you could make arguments for Thesz, Gotch and Blassie in some sense too. No Karl Gotch, no NJPW as we know it. Like I say, I'm not satisfied with that top 10 I just put up. Almost immediately after I posted it, I felt like I should bump Vader for Brody, given how big Baba vs. Brody was as a feud. And then there's The Destroyer, Blassie, etc.Ā I would say the Bullet Club's importance is still "under construction" at the moment, simply because we have yet to see if NJPW's move into the Western market is permanent. Edited June 5, 2019 by Carbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted June 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Carbomb said: I would say the Bullet Club's importance is still "under construction" at the moment, simply because we have yet to see if NJPW's move into the Western market is permanent. I think this is a very fair point. Their importance is immediate rather than decades in the making. I do believe they have created a huge buzz in regards to Japanese wrestling over the few years. Even going to local shows and seeing people in knock off NJPW shirts is impressive. Dare I also say that Bullet Club were arguably the seed planters for what is now AEW? Without their influence and marketability to the western audience, would AEW be aĀ thing? Iād argue not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted June 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Kaz Hayashi said: Dare I also say that Bullet Club were arguably the seed planters for what is now AEW? Without their influence and marketability to the western audience, would AEW be aĀ thing? Iād argue not. I absolutely agree. I think the homogenisation, and globalisation (for lack of a better term),Ā of wrestling that we've seen over the past few years has been pretty much inevitable as broadband speeds and streaming tech have made it easier to watch wrestling from all over the world, but Bullet Club feel like they were an active driving force in that process more than just about anyone else. For as much as they've westernised NJPW, their effect has been far broader reaching than that, and I agree that there's no AEW without them. The question is whether they were cause or effect, really. In terms of the Bullet Club-AEW connection, I did find it interesting that the majority of T-shirts visible in the audience seemed to be AEW/The Elite, then Bullet Club, then Undisputed Era. There seems to be a continuity of a very specific brand of wrestling there. Edited June 5, 2019 by BomberPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofSports Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Not that anybody asked, but sticking my two penneth-worth in, I'd probably have gone with these (not necessarily in the order shown): Rikidozan Inoki Baba Billy Robinson Karl Gotch Tsuruta Tenryu Choshu Misawa Sayama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted June 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2019 58 minutes ago, BomberPat said: I absolutely agree. I think the homogenisation, and globalisation (for lack of a better term),Ā of wrestling that we've seen over the past few years has been pretty much inevitable as broadband speeds and streaming tech have made it easier to watch wrestling from all over the world, but Bullet Club feel like they were an active driving force in that process more than just about anyone else. For as much as they've westernised NJPW, their effect has been far broader reaching than that, and I agree that there's no AEW without them. The question is whether they were cause or effect, really. In terms of the Bullet Club-AEW connection, I did find it interesting that the majority of T-shirts visible in the audience seemed to be AEW/The Elite, then Bullet Club, then Undisputed Era. There seems to be a continuity of a very specific brand of wrestling there. Yeah, the cause or effect point is very valid, and if Iām truly honest, I think NXT has had the biggest part to play. I know a number of people who were lapsed fans to an extent, started watching NXT prior and during Nakmuras run. They were always aware of āJapanā but not in any detail and at best weāre aware of Ultimo Dragon, Tajiri, Taka etc. They were curious and it happened to coincide with the Bullet Club doing their thing. I canāt speak for the entire driving force obviously, but from the people I know who are recentĀ fans ofĀ Japan in some form, it stemmed from NXT, but Bullet Club hugely grabbed their attention, whilst they were being curious. NXT - Bullet Club - NJPW World subscribers. Iād be interested to know how many new NJPW fans in general,Ā took notice due toĀ NXT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted June 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2019 Rikidozen Yokozuna Kenzo Suzuki Sono OnoĀ Blitzkrieg Mr Fuji Akio Sato Kato Pat TanakaĀ Crush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bellenda Carlisle Posted June 5, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2019 You forgot Kendo NagasakiĀ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Quote But I really want to find out. I've thought for the longest time that he has the lot. I remember Edge and Christian going on in their Podcast about just how good Harper is. He's incredibly athletic for a man his size and has tremendous facial expressions to boot. I hope the AEW move happens. He could be a tremendous star there with his size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts