Random Thoughts III.

[LaGoosh]

Ricochet can do absolutely insane high flying spots. Unfortunately so can quite a lot of the lads these days. But he's shit at selling, eliciting sympathy, building to a comeback, emotionally engaging with anything...basically everything that gets you over with a crowd that isn't a high spot. Rey Mysterio is a master at all that stuff.

[Polish Dad]

It's also a different time in the business. They've got an absolute boatload of guys under contract, unless you're a headliner, you're expendable. There's no way that doesn't breed this 'publicly joyous, happy to be here' attitude as a way to keep yourself in the good books.

If Ricochet rocks the boat there's no reason to believe he wouldn't find himself out on his arse right quick.

[BomberPat]

8 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

Ricochet can do absolutely insane high flying spots. Unfortunately so can quite a lot of the lads these days. But he's shit at selling, eliciting sympathy, building to a comeback, emotionally engaging with anything...basically everything that gets you over with a crowd that isn't a high spot. Rey Mysterio is a master at all that stuff.

This is absolutely it - Rey didn't get over because he was a flippy guy; otherwise we'd have seen the same kind of success from Ultimo Dragon, Psicosis, or Super Calo. Rey can garner sympathy with his selling better than anyone this side of Ricky Morton, and uses the high-flying stuff almost as an adjunct to that; so much of his offence feels, even when you've seen it a thousand times, like either a creative or desperate effort to use his speed/technical ability to get the better of a larger opponent. 

It doesn't help that, since coming to the main roster, Ricochet is wrestling very much in the WWE House Style, just punctuated with high-flying moves. He almost needs to be the worker he was in the Ospreay match, just constant high spots, flips and athleticism that makes him stand out even when everyone and their dog is doing backflips, because at the moment, him being slotted into the formula and just hitting one or two big top rope moves a match isn't enough. 

 

As ever, the biggest failing is with the booking. Not being able to talk shouldn't hold a wrestler back from success, if the promotion is capable of booking to hide their weaknesses.

[Your Fight Site]

Nah. WWE needs more curmudgeonly stars, like Triple H who do nothing but scowl and say, “Am I going over tonight?” when a writer approaches them.

[CavemanLynn]

2 hours ago, SaitoRyo said:

But the above it exactly what I mean. In the documentary he says he wants to prove he can be a main eventer and I watched that and just thought 'really?'. 

This is what I'd be really interested to know from the current crop, either what they think or what they've been told a main eventer is. We're in a different era with different priorities, and we've seen a number of occasions where WWE have ignored the crowds and stuck to their guns, so maybe today this does mean smile, wave, hit your spots, obey the agents and wait your turn.

[SaitoRyo]

20 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said:

This is what I'd be really interested to know from the current crop, either what they think or what they've been told a main eventer is. We're in a different era with different priorities, and we've seen a number of occasions where WWE have ignored the crowds and stuck to their guns, so maybe today this does mean smile, wave, hit your spots, obey the agents and wait your turn.

Most likely. 

It is a much different era and, though the Ricochet documentary just highlighted it for me, this passivity and general fanboying is an issue I have with a lot of the current crop. 

You can talk yourself in circles about the booking, presentation and everything else, but I just like it when performers have a little bit of an edge to them. 

Someone mentioned Ambrose earlier and he's a good example. Or a guy like Neville, who is similar to Ricochet in a lot of ways, basically saying 'fuck this' because they felt they were worth more and wanted to do more and weren't just happy to be there because it's WWE. 

There'll never be another Attitude Era (and thank God for that) but one of the things people often bring up when talking about that time is how hungry and determined everyone was, which was one of the big factors in their individual and collective successes. 

There's a lot of points that have been brought up since my initial post and I didn't expect everyone to pile on Ricochet exactly. It's a general thing I've noticed with today's performers and I think the product would improve if there was a mentality shift. 

They need to get out of the Gratitude Era. 

[BomberPat]

Ambrose is an example of someone who clearly knew his worth, and knew that he could get out of WWE and walk straight into a meaningful position elsewhere.

Pre-Covid, the last couple of years have seen it become easier for a wrestler to make a living outside of WWE than at any time since WCW closed. So people who know that they have something to offer should be in a better position to throw their weight around, knowing that if the boss says no, they have another job to walk into. 

But on the other side, WWE contracts seem to be designed precisely to stop that happening - Ambrose had to wait for his to expire, while PAC was forced to sit at home doing nothing for months rather than being able to just quit his job and go and work somewhere else. 

[LaGoosh]

From most accounts, wrestlers are paid far better in WWE today than they were in the Attitude era. Brodie Lee said he was offered a very high six figure downside salary to basically sit at home and not go to AEW. If the wrestlers had to really fight for those good spots to get bigger payoffs like they used to have to perhaps the product would be better. I can understand how some just fall into a pattern of doing what's easiest to them when creative never gives them anything to work with and they'll be paid shit loads regardless.

[Sphinx]

45 minutes ago, SaitoRyo said:

They need to get out of the Gratitude Era. 

Love that.

[DavidB6937]

1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

Ambrose is an example of someone who clearly knew his worth, and knew that he could get out of WWE and walk straight into a meaningful position elsewhere.

Pre-Covid, the last couple of years have seen it become easier for a wrestler to make a living outside of WWE than at any time since WCW closed. So people who know that they have something to offer should be in a better position to throw their weight around, knowing that if the boss says no, they have another job to walk into. 

But on the other side, WWE contracts seem to be designed precisely to stop that happening - Ambrose had to wait for his to expire, while PAC was forced to sit at home doing nothing for months rather than being able to just quit his job and go and work somewhere else. 

It's all about priorities too isn't it? Like Ambrose - despite being constantly pushed in one way or another, he just wasn't happy with the overall quality of the storylines and character. He didn't want to smile through the shit just to pick up the money. He values enjoying his performances more than money in many ways - although I'm sure he's getting both in AEW which is even better. He's never been against putting his body on the line for far less though. Same with PAC.

WWE isn't everything to everyone, but it is to a lot of them. Even those that leave do so with the idea of coming back eventually. Bettering themselves. Hoping that they'll be enough to succeed the next time round. Their stays elsewhere are only temporary until they find a way of getting back.

Ricochet - I imagine he'll leave eventually, despite his 'living the dream' approach at the moment. There's only so long a guy like that can sit back and not be used. He knows he'd make a killing elsewhere. Anywhere! But he'll be one of those that'll leave with the hope of eventually getting WWE's attention again.

[Cod Eye]

What benefits do the likes of Ricochet get for being in the main event these days rather than being in the lower or mid card? Apart from having more chances to wear their latest t-shirt to push merch sales, I can't think of many others. In the past, they wanted to top spots as they got a bigger chunk of the gate and PPV revenues. Now, there are less house shows than ever, and the PPV market is tiny thanks to the network, so PPV bonuses are smaller. The difference between a lower/mid card spot and the main event(even the spot as champion) is the smallest I think I've ever seen it, so in that respect, can you blame someone for just being happy to have a job?

I've said it in another thread recently, but the main event is now "WWE" rather than wrestler A vs wrestler B.

[CavemanLynn]

1 hour ago, DavidB6937 said:

... Bettering themselves. Hoping that they'll be enough to succeed the next time round. Their stays elsewhere are only temporary until they find a way of getting back.

Striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that the next leap... will be the leap home.

[BomberPat]

15 minutes ago, Cod Eye said:

What benefits do the likes of Ricochet get for being in the main event these days rather than being in the lower or mid card? Apart from having more chances to wear their latest t-shirt to push merch sales, I can't think of many others. In the past, they wanted to top spots as they got a bigger chunk of the gate and PPV revenues. Now, there are less house shows than ever, and the PPV market is tiny thanks to the network, so PPV bonuses are smaller. The difference between a lower/mid card spot and the main event(even the spot as champion) is the smallest I think I've ever seen it, so in that respect, can you blame someone for just being happy to have a job?

I've said it in another thread recently, but the main event is now "WWE" rather than wrestler A vs wrestler B.

Selling more shirts, getting on the cover of the next video game, being front and centre of marketing, are all great reasons to be a main event talent. I've spoken to guys who worked the WWF at the height of its powers who have said some of the biggest paychecks they ever received came 15-20 years later for appearing as a "Legend" in one of the video games. The more of a star you are, the more likely you are to be heavily merchandised and licensed, and earn big money. It's also a means of making yourself more invaluable to the company.

As much as we talk about there being no real "main event" any more, there is - there's the schmucks who wrestle on TV, and then there's the real main event caste of Lesnar, Trips, 'Taker, Cena, and Goldberg. You can eventually carve out a spot in that upper echelon by main eventing now, but no one who's spending their whole career knocking about the midcard is ever going to get that sweet deal.

[DavidB6937]

There still has to be an element of being the best right? Like surely every single person that gets into wrestling wants to be a champion in some form or another, despite what some of them may say. I don't think anyone gets in it to be a failure. Sure there's an element of 'okay I must be good, I'm here!' but you get a guy like Drew McIntyre who deliberately went out there on the indys to better himself and prove a damn point, and it clearly means so much to him to reach the top of the mountain now. I can't see many guys not wanting that.

[BomberPat]

3 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

There still has to be an element of being the best right? Like surely every single person that gets into wrestling wants to be a champion in some form or another, despite what some of them may say. I don't think anyone gets in it to be a failure. Sure there's an element of 'okay I must be good, I'm here!' but you get a guy like Drew McIntyre who deliberately went out there on the indys to better himself and prove a damn point, and it clearly means so much to him to reach the top of the mountain now. I can't see many guys not wanting that.

Oh, for sure. You don't get to WWE in the first place without that kind of drive to be really good at what you do, and without a ton of either pride in your work or the need to have your ego sated by being called the best. But that's also where different measures of being "the best" come from - if you're a wrestling nerd who grew up reading dirtsheets and on forums, are you happy getting rave reviews on Twitter and 5 stars from Meltzer, whereas thirty years ago when half the top stars were just muscleheads that existing wrestlers found working the door at strip clubs or just happened to be going to the same gym, and whose idea of being the best was making as much money as quickly as possible.