Random Thoughts III.

[TheBurningRed]

1 hour ago, The Cutting Edge said:

For someone "overpushed" and "shoved down fans throats" he's never been a long dominant champion.

It was only two or three years ago where he barely won on ppv either. Despite him being “overpushed” “shoved down fans throats” - Hardly John Cena of 05-07.

Its like they tried to counteract it so if he lost more, the fans would stop moaning and rally behind him. Just didn’t work.

[Lenin]

1 hour ago, DavidB6937 said:

Do we think Roman can ever be the star they want him to be? Or have they fucked him up so much over the years that he'll never get any further than he has?

Not really I don't think. Might be circumstances and lower expectations but Drew has been absolutely bad ass so far as champion. He has the look, his promos and off the cuff intensity ooze charisma and his matches have been damn good - Lashley/Drew was so much better than it had any right to be. Age Drew's offence is 100 times better than Roman's.

Added to the fact his merch is class and he doesn't have the stink of being forced as "the guy" I really don't see how Roman is relevant at the moment. I've not missed him and have actually been glad he's off TV because the inevitable crap that comes along with him - pushed, booed, crap promos, crap ring gear etc. 

Drew's the man for me for the foreseeable. 

[BomberPat]

7 minutes ago, TheBurningRed said:

It was only two or three years ago where he barely won on ppv either. Despite him being “overpushed” “shoved down fans throats” - Hardly John Cena of 05-07.

Its like they tried to counteract it so if he lost more, the fans would stop moaning and rally behind him. Just didn’t work.

Yeah, I really think they were trying to have their cake and eat it too with Roman - they still wanted him as their guy at Wrestlemania, but then he spent months losing to Braun Strowman, to The Miz, and just about anyone else. It seemed like they were trying to get people to side with him by not having him be a guy who wins all the time, but it meant that it just stood out more when they did the "wins and losses don't matter" thing and had him still walk into big storylines and matches regardless - only now he didn't feel special in those matches because he'd not been booked strongly enough. They didn't commit one way or another. 

He beat The Undertaker at Wrestlemania, then lost his next PPV match to Braun Strowman, won some matches on TV - but against then-internet darlings like Finn Balor and Bray Wyatt, so not earning himself any points - lost again at the next three PPVs, and didn't actually win on pay-per-view until September of that year, when he beat John Cena, but only after having Cena belittle him for the entire build and point out all of his flaws, effectively undoing whatever work might have been done to make him credible. 

Maybe The Shield comeback could have salvaged him, but then they couldn't capitalise on him beating (and seemingly retiring) The Undertaker, they couldn't capitalise on him beating cancer. It doesn't just make me think they can't make a top babyface of him, it makes me think they can't make a top babyface at all.

In hindsight, they never should have had Seth Rollins cash in at Wrestlemania. Reigns was having a banger of a hard-hitting match against Brock Lesnar, back when Lesnar still had the credibility that meant hanging with him in a match could be star-making. 

[The Cutting Edge]

11 minutes ago, TheBurningRed said:

It was only two or three years ago where he barely won on ppv either. Despite him being “overpushed” “shoved down fans throats” - Hardly John Cena of 05-07.

Its like they tried to counteract it so if he lost more, the fans would stop moaning and rally behind him. Just didn’t work.

Exactly

Think it caused more damage to him, as I say just go with him all the way when he's back, get the strap and smash through everyone, no more fucking about being 70/30 club, Austin, Hogan, Cena didn't lose often and neither should Reigns 

In some regards they should consider things a "soft reboot" of the whole company when full roster and crowds are back.

[The Cutting Edge]

The Cancer comeback was always gonna be dodgy to keep him face, I saw plenty of comments (not here) of "how long do we pretend to like him" type posts.

As for Seth cash in I always thought if Reigns won as he almost did, have they music, pyro etc then have Seth cash in and win, setting up reigns having to go through The Authority all summer til he beats Rollins at Summerslam and gets a proper reign, that way everyone "wins" long run, lack of him following up on Seth/Title hurt him too

[Pinc]

34 minutes ago, The Cutting Edge said:

I say just go with him all the way when he's back, get the strap and smash through everyone, no more fucking about being 70/30 club, Austin, Hogan, Cena didn't lose often and neither should Reigns.

Can anyone be arsed with dreary Roman face push part 48,229? Go with someone else. Once he's no longer meant to be top guy it should give them chance to be a bit more creative with him, like actually trying out a heel turn. The guy deserves it, hard worker, really good at certain things. Just not the complete package. It's fine, give us the heel stable with The Usos and let him salvage something from his otherwise tainted career.

[Syl]

This view isn't a new one, but wrestling isn't the same no more. The big time feel, the larger than life characters... I know that NXT is the second tier of WWE, but the show is broadcast all over the world. I've just seen their poster for the GAB, and the whole look of it smacks 'Live American Style Wrestling' that you'd see at your local leisure centre. 

[wordsfromlee]

6 minutes ago, Syl said:

This view isn't a new one, but wrestling isn't the same no more. The big time feel, the larger than life characters... I know that NXT is the second tier of WWE, but the show is broadcast all over the world. I've just seen their poster for the GAB, and the whole look of it smacks 'Live American Style Wrestling' that you'd see at your local leisure centre. 

I really hope this thread doesn’t turn into another one where JakeRobertsParoleOffficer gets horny over images of The Ultimate Warrior so roided up it looks like he’s about to burst out of his skin. 

[Pinc]

1 hour ago, wordsfromlee said:

I really hope this thread doesn’t turn into another one where JakeRobertsParoleOffficer gets horny over images of The Ultimate Warrior so roided up it looks like he’s about to burst out of his skin. 

Well I hope it does lad.

[CavemanLynn]

5 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Do we think Roman can ever be the star they want him to be? Or have they fucked him up so much over the years that he'll never get any further than he has?

That they couldn't get Roman Reigns over as a megastar face is one of the great failings of recent years. Every glimpse you get of the real man, he comes across as absolutely mint, a doting dad who loves his family, with buckets of charisma and Hollywood connections.

Then again, if Vince really does still hold all the sway, then the idea of a superstar face being someone who loves his kids and has a genuine respect and brotherhood with his relatives might very well seem alien to him, based not only on what's he's booked himself in onscreen but also the weird incestuous shit he's rumored to have tried to book, and the stories of his mental lifestyle completely in his bubble.

It's a shame Goldberg did the superhero dad gimmick so well, because that's part of the angle I'd take with Roman. Acknowledge the connection with the Usos, maybe use the association to update his look. Have him help Jimmy and Jey in some greatest hits style multi mans, then thank them for easing him back in before going single. No need for a heel turn.

Give him a solid string of wins, tuning him up, maybe while some upper card heel (Rollins?) is running a bullying angle. After a few months, he's had all he can stands, he can't stands no more, and walks out and casually spears the fuck out of the heel. Then have the heel promo for weeks leading to the PPV, only to have Reigns Goldberg him in a 4 minute squash. 6-9 months and he'll be ready for a title run again.

[The Cutting Edge]

I don't think fans will ever get his side despite how he's booked or good his matches are, a lot of modern fans are stubborn and refuse to be "wrong" 

But I do like The Bloodline stuff they've semi done with Reigns and Usos on/off for a few years, a rebooted Wyatt/Fiend family which I think is heading to vs Bloodline could be a great long term story for SD to build around.

When everything is back of course

[Pinc]

1 hour ago, CavemanLynn said:

That they couldn't get Roman Reigns over as a megastar face is one of the great failings of recent years. Every glimpse you get of the real man, he comes across as absolutely mint, a doting dad who loves his family, with buckets of charisma and Hollywood connections.

Then again, if Vince really does still hold all the sway, then the idea of a superstar face being someone who loves his kids and has a genuine respect and brotherhood with his relatives might very well seem alien to him, based not only on what's he's booked himself in onscreen but also the weird incestuous shit he's rumored to have tried to book, and the stories of his mental lifestyle completely in his bubble.

It's a shame Goldberg did the superhero dad gimmick so well, because that's part of the angle I'd take with Roman. Acknowledge the connection with the Usos, maybe use the association to update his look. Have him help Jimmy and Jey in some greatest hits style multi mans, then thank them for easing him back in before going single. No need for a heel turn.

Give him a solid string of wins, tuning him up, maybe while some upper card heel (Rollins?) is running a bullying angle. After a few months, he's had all he can stands, he can't stands no more, and walks out and casually spears the fuck out of the heel. Then have the heel promo for weeks leading to the PPV, only to have Reigns Goldberg him in a 4 minute squash. 6-9 months and he'll be ready for a title run again.

I do like this idea but the fans are just never taking to him without him going heel first and giving them the chance to feel they turned him back.

It’d do him good as a performer to learn how to be a heel again too. Hasn’t done it in years, and back then he was the silent muscle for Ambrose.

[HarmonicGenerator]

5 hours ago, The Cutting Edge said:

In some regards they should consider things a "soft reboot" of the whole company when full roster and crowds are back.

I’d have thought the past few months would have been a perfect time for such a thing - no crowd to react the ‘wrong’ way, no worry about burning out said crowd or boring them with loads of pre-tapes to set up rebooted stuff, no pressure to be live in front of thousands, etc. If they didn’t do it then, no chance they’ll do it when they’re back and can get away with bare minimum because people are just happy to get out and watch live entertainment again.

[The Cutting Edge]

11 minutes ago, HarmonicGenerator said:

I’d have thought the past few months would have been a perfect time for such a thing - no crowd to react the ‘wrong’ way, no worry about burning out said crowd or boring them with loads of pre-tapes to set up rebooted stuff, no pressure to be live in front of thousands, etc. If they didn’t do it then, no chance they’ll do it when they’re back and can get away with bare minimum because people are just happy to get out and watch live entertainment again.

I think when they get going again, they'll have so many "fresh" faces to work with, do a big 3 brand draft give the whole company a fresh lick of paint leading into new year and Mania season.

Most likely they won't but if ever there was a chance now's the time to

[Angle_fan]

Does anyone else read Rikishi when they see the chancellors name?