Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 Watching Jake's shoot interviews, you'd think he was Dylan or something. He has an opinion on everyone, and rarely puts anyone over. Jake Roberts is definitely a proper smart wrestler. He was a excellent promo with a great gimmick and an over finish. Someone who could manipulate the audiences emotions (he showed that in 2014 with that Hall of Fame speech), but for me he was always smart in the way that dragged him above the level he would have been otherwise. His talent was making the most of what he had, as opposed to making him the best of his era. I could never see him working programs with Hogan or Warrior all over the country and out perform them in their comfort zone. Someone like Randy Savage could work with Jake. Savage was someone who allowed Warrior to pin him with one foot as the fans were chuffed they'd never see him again and then moments later have the audience in tears as he left the arena with his wife. Would Jake have done that in there with Warrior? I dont even know if he'd have taken Warrior's finish. Jake was always at home as an upper midcard heel or babyface. Roberts supporters will say he'd have been the king of wrestling if he wasn't smacked off his tits most of the time, but is that really true? Jake always stuck me as a bloke who we seen the best of, just for a shorter time than we thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelve_grand Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) This is off topic but seems the right place - has anyone tried using news.google.com/newspapers for contemporary coverage of old wrestling events? It's great for news articles from the US and UK local press - I was just reading Big Daddy giving it the 'show must go on' (after Mal Kirk died) in several papers and thought I'd type in some random historical names into the search engine - whether it's the earliest "fake" wrestling gang reports in 1908 or more recent coverage in local papers of why 'local resident' Brian Hildebrand can't get a managers job in wrestling it's bloody amazing. Edited October 22, 2014 by twelve_grand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Jake was always at home as an upper midcard heel or babyface. Roberts supporters will say he'd have been the king of wrestling if he wasn't smacked off his tits most of the time, but is that really true? Jake always stuck me as a bloke who we seen the best of, just for a shorter time than we thought. I think that's one of the big differences between then and now -- you were allowed to be an upper midcard guy. That whole club of guys that people now idiotically say should've been WWF champion (Jake, Piper, DiBiase, Perfect, Rude etc) were nowhere near Hogan, Warrior and Savage as a standard-bearer. But they had their spot underneath the top and they were great at it. You don't really get that position now. Anyone in that spot has people demanding they be elevated. Nobody ever says Wade Barrett should be in the Jake Roberts spot, for example. People think everyone is being buried if they're not the world champion, and they're all trying to outdo the world title matches. Twenty-five years ago, wrestlers seemed to wrestle more to their role on the card, which is why the likes of Jake and Duggan could get away with doing fuck all and refusing to be booked to lose. They never had to do the heavy lifting carrying a major show, so their routines were perfect for what they were doing. And they'd only wrestle someone decent on TV about once a month tops, so doing double DQs wasn't a big wet fart like it would be now if every wrestler vs wrestler match ended in one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 Nobody ever says Wade Barrett should be in the Jake Roberts spot, for example. People think everyone is being buried if they're not the world champion That's not the fault of "people". That's because you don't have to be right good to have been world champion. It's almost an insult if you're not. When you look at the list of people who've been World Champion since the late 90's, you can't help but compare a guy like Wade Barrett to them and wonder when it's his turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) On Jake Roberts WWF match quality, it's worth remembering the schedule they had back then (especially a bloke like Jake). Almost all the roster were working smart and safe because they were trying their hardest not to get completely battered by the end of the loop. Pretty sure Roberts had a buggered neck during all that too. Plus, the New York style was still very much in full effect in the 80s, which was a bit more methodical and, at their best, about telling a solid story. Mark Henry is probably one of best about, when it comes to the old story part of wrestling. When he's in there with a modern warrior like Cena or Bryan or Punk, it's magic. A shame that great Smackdown run was ruined by his body giving up on him. Edited October 22, 2014 by ColinBollocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznor Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Not many wrestlers back in the late 80s and early 90s, outside of those vying for IC and World Titles, were putting on matches that would be appreciated by fans of workrate today. I think part of the reason Jake took such a less is more approach was precisely because he was such a good talker, and that could get him all the reactions he needed for his spot on the card. After all, why work fans into a frenzy by knocking your pan in and damaging your body when you have such skills to get just as good a reaction merely by opening your mouth? Jake was never really in a position to have those epic, career defining matches, and undoubtedly had a few high profile stinkers. But as a huge fan, there's still loads of his in-ring stuff that I love. Obviously the Steamboat series springs to mind, as well as the Savage matches taken in the context of the overall segment. Some of the Rude and Dibiase matches that are out there are a lot of fun too, despite their 'big' matches on PPV being less well received. I love the WM6 match though, but I'm pretty certain i'm the only one (then again, I used to think that about Demolition/Colossals before reading a few others sharing my views, so you never know!) I always felt like circumstances almost conspired to deprive Jake of getting the chance of good matches in the 90s. Not that they did, but he did seem to be unlucky in that way. You look at the Martel feud, and whilst the blindfold match gimmick was a perfect feud ender, we'd surely have also liked to see a regular match between them. Or a match against Perfect for example. We did get that, but it was short and had the usual non-finish just as it was getting interesting. Then as a heel in the early 90s, I always imagined he could have had a lot of fun matches, but he was never on TV against name guys. That was a strange 6 months. It was entirely about the character. Similarly, I felt that if he'd hung around in 1992, you could potentially have had matches v the likes of the Hitman, and they'd have surely been good. Or if he'd hung around WCW,there was a whole lot more name vs name TV matches there, and he'd be involved in a lot of good stuff. He did have a fun match v Dustin, mind you. Edited October 22, 2014 by Reznor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The WWE Encyclopedia is down to £5 now in WH Smith. Loads of them left, in the Speke branch at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Linus Posted October 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 24, 2014 Reading through it at the moment. Surprised at how comprehensive it is, at least in terms of who's included. Did not expect Barry Orton, David Schults or Billy Graham! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reverend Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The WWE Encyclopedia is down to £5 now in WH Smith. Loads of them left, in the Speke branch at least. If anyone picked up a discount card they were giving away the last few weeks then you could've picked it up for £4 like I did - that's cheaper than a copy of their mag!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted October 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 24, 2014 Reading through it at the moment. Surprised at how comprehensive it is, at least in terms of who's included. Did not expect Barry Orton, David Schults or Billy Graham! Have you managed to find anyone that isn't included yet? Other than guys that weren't under contract or weren't around at the time of publishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted October 24, 2014 Awards Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) I'm sure I spotted in my one that Johnny Stamboli doesn't get an entry to himself. He's in the picture for the FBI but that's it. Thought it was slightly strange since he had a singles run and was Hardcore Champion and everything, but maybe I just missed his entry... Edited October 24, 2014 by HarmonicGenerator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShowOff Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Jake was always at home as an upper midcard heel or babyface. Roberts supporters will say he'd have been the king of wrestling if he wasn't smacked off his tits most of the time, but is that really true? Jake always stuck me as a bloke who we seen the best of, just for a shorter time than we thought. That whole club of guys that people now idiotically say should've been WWF champion (Jake, Piper, DiBiase, Perfect, Rude etc) were nowhere near Hogan, Warrior and Savage as a standard-bearer. Piper and Dibiase could have easily been world champions in their prime. Thinking otherwise is idiocy, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Piper and Dibiase could have easily been world champions in their prime. Because I enjoy poking morons: When would Roddy Piper and Ted DiBiase been better choices for WWF champion than whoever actually held the title at the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShowOff Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Piper and Dibiase could have easily been world champions in their prime. Because I enjoy poking morons: When would Roddy Piper and Ted DiBiase been better choices for WWF champion than whoever actually held the title at the time? When did I say anything about better choices? My dinner tonight will be pizza and it will be great, doesn't mean curry wouldn't be an excellent choice either. Just because pizza will prove to be great doesn't mean the very qualified curry wouldn't have been. You may want to find somebody else to poke... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metallica Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 ...and in a different thread. Since this is about wrestling books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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