Against the grain wrestling opinions

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

7 hours ago, LaGoosh said:

There's definitely a compelling story you could tell with Jericho of an old wrestler past their prime, desperate for one last shot at glory but their body and mind fails them at every turn and they have to scratch and claw deeper within themselves for survival against the new generation of faster, more athletic wrestlers. 

Unfortunately though most older wrestler egos don't allow them to do those stories so you just get promotions and wrestlers pretending they are as great as they always were.

I'd rather they give this to Jeff Jarrett frankly. 

[Lorne Malvo]

17 hours ago, RedTwoster said:

 

But it’s not so much about that for me, it’s that I think it might actually be important for AEW to show that it’s not just a place of transition; you don’t have to go back to WWE to end your career in a relevant way. Hosting Jericho’s final run much would matter. Having people think of AEW when they think of Jericho’s career rather than WWE would be an important thing. Being able to wheel out your first ever champion as an ambassador whenever you need to would be a positive thing. 

I think they've already done this with Sting to a much better extent than they ever could with Chris Jericho.

[RedTwoster]

59 minutes ago, Lorne Malvo said:

I think they've already done this with Sting to a much better extent than they ever could with Chris Jericho.

They have, but the context of that is a little different. Sting had already been forcibly retired by WWE, and he was already in their Hall of Fame. He couldn’t have that final run in WWE, as they wouldn’t let him.

I think it’s a good thing for someone significant to choose to have their final run in AEW - to show that you don’t need WWE to end things on a high. Plus there’s the fact he’s their first ever champion. It would be a big deal if he chose to wrap things up in AEW. 

I don’t think he will, though. If he was going to return, I think he’d be back by now.

[Arch Stanton]

I'd struggle to even think of three wrestlers that have ended their careers on a high in WWE, they are absolutely awful at that kind of stuff. I'd see AEW as the far safer bet if Jericho wanted a retirement angle that was booked effectively and respectfully, but I don't think he's looking at wrapping his career up just yet. I just think he will feel that his WWE story still has some chapters to write and the opportunity for him there is more interesting and exciting than staying put right now.

Edited November 17, 2025 by Arch Stanton

[Infinity Land]

I don't think Jericho's going to have a real final run for it to matter. With Sting you believe he's done in-ring not just because of his age but his health. Jericho will be a Lawler, Funk, Flair type. He'll keep popping up for spots every 2-3 years and work matches as long as he's allowed. He was too early with it, but he sought out that commentary gig knowing knowing it keeps you relevant and can lead to the occasional angle. 

[LaGoosh]

11 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

I'd struggle to even think of three wrestlers that have ended their careers on a high in WWE, they are absolutely awful at that kind of stuff.

It's very rare for any wrestler to end their career on a high. They usually just keep going at smaller and smaller shows until they crumble into a pile of dust. 

[BomberPat]

23 hours ago, Cheeky Boy said:

Shawn Michaels wasn't being a prick against Hogan at Summerslam.

 

I saw a clip of him giving his reasons, and I buy it. It mostly is how he used to sell as a heel, and I can believe the combination of him playing that role as a novelty, mixed with Hogan being essentially immobile, led to him overdoing it a touch. But, aside from maybe the big boot "stand back up, do a somersault" bit, I don't think there was a lot different to how he played it in the 90s. Just looked a bit jarring 10 years later when things had moved on.

There's more to it than just over the top bumps, though. Hogan is a routine wrestler, and so much of what Shawn is doing in that match seems designed to throw off his timing and disrupt the routine - that's what the sell of the big boot is for, and before that, he bumps on the second of Hogan's punches rather than taking all three (and, in general, bumping for punches is a no-no in WWE). There's a point where Hogan hits his head on the ringpost, and Michaels is suddenly all over him with punches and not allowing him any space - it's all designed to not give Hogan the time to blade after the ringpost hit, so that by the time he does, it looks like it's Michaels' punches that busted Hulk open, not the post. The match is full of little fuckery like that, the mad bumps are just one part of it.

22 hours ago, LaGoosh said:

They did it in the worst way possible but really turning Rikishi heel in late 2000 wasn't a terrible idea. His babyface act was on the cusp of becoming tired and if they stuck with it he could've been a decent upper midcard heel act.

The original plan behind the "did it for The Rock" thing was him leading a Samoan heel stable, likely with the future Rosey and Jamal, apparently. Which could have at least been something, and I suppose the team with Haku was maybe the last vestige of that idea. But even that team could have been a decent midcard threat, and never was.

The bit I find oddest of all is that they didn't change up Rikishi's look. He's not getting taken seriously as a top heel when still wearing the thong gear from when his shtick was getting a comedy pop for shoving his arse in people's faces. Just get him in tights or trunks, or just wrestling in the tracksuit, anything to change it up and that's half the battle.

[Chris B]

1 hour ago, Lorne Malvo said:

I think they've already done this with Sting to a much better extent than they ever could with Chris Jericho.

They've also got a much more positive version of the same thing with Edge. If he and Christian get their final run, then he hangs up his boots in the next year or two, I think that'd be a more genuine version of that than Jericho. And, like Sting, I could see Copeland meaning it.

[herbie747]

I think JR is overrated as an announcer and Gorilla is underrated 

[gmoney]

Gorilla is fantastic. Meltzer and his ilk always used to have a go at him for things like saying a babyface would never submit, because it kills the drama. Well WWF at that time didn't really build matches around submissions so it really didn't matter, and he was getting over the babyface as brave and hard, which for that product was much more important. He was super likable, great voice and he could put over drama when he needed.

I can't agree with JR being overrated though. He's bad now obviously, but in his day I don't think anyone was better for enriching the product and striking the right dramatic tone. Which considering some of the shit he had to put over was a miracle. It's stark today that there's no one who can hold a candle to him in that regard. Cole and Excalibur in particular are awful at it. 

[theringmaster]

Put me down for JR being over rated, he almost became a parody of himself towards the end of his wwe run. Same old lines/tropes every match. He was good for Austin matches but after that i tired of him

[LaGoosh]

Even at his worst JR still has an innate gift at just putting out the perfect line to get something over. At his best I think he's untouchable.

[JLM]

I like Excalibur overall as an announcer but he really cannot sell outrage or disgust at the actions of heels. JR was phenomenal at this, not only getting suitably irate, but also selling that they have pushed him beyond his capacity to remain professional. Like he couldn’t help himself because he’s a human being watching abhorrent shit go down. 
 

Perhaps he did veer into self parody later on, but he was also such an iconic voice and had so many endlessly replayed massive calls that even his best work has been the subject of meme and parody, and that isn’t a mark against him for me.  People doing a silly impression of a stereotypical wrestling commentator will do JR, but that’s because he is one of THE voices of pro wrestling. It’s a bit like how people making fun of rap or doing a parody of rap will often sound  like Run DMC, and then if you listen to some of their stuff after hearing the parodies and piss takes then THEY can sound like a parody to modern ears. That shouldn’t discredit their work though, and if anything is more of a compliment and a recognition that they are defining voices of the genre. 

Edited November 17, 2025 by JLM

[Chili]

Yeah thing with JR is by quite far into his WWE run you get clichés and whatnot, but his ability to sound REAL for lack of a better term is something that say Michael Cole or Excalibur lacks. JR calling Mid-South '84/85 or WCW PPV's (when he wasn't stonewalling Jesse Ventura) was absolutely incredible and his gear changes accelerate the enjoyment of matches for me when the match itself goes into a different stage.

Monsoon got a ridiculous amount of shit from Meltzer but that's just him being weird because it's not what HE wants I've always thought. His constantly going back when about wrestlers promoted on TV being undefeated when they'd lose on house shows is another example of him just being a weird fucker. Gorilla Monsoon was perfect for that WWF. The call of Wrestlemania's 3-6 are almost like podcasts in you could listen and get everything going on.

Edited November 17, 2025 by Chili

[SuperBacon]

JR is a massive component in Hart/Austin WM13, the best match ever, so he'll always get love from me. He adds such a great layer to that match.

Even Vince and Lawler are superb on it as well to be fair.