Against the grain wrestling opinions

[DavidB6937]

He's definitely been presented as a far more one dimensional one note guy in NXT than anywhere else. The work he did on the indies, especially for ICW, was a lot more fun I thought. Granted, it's still entrance specific a lot of the time, but at least it felt like there was more effort going into it.

[LaGoosh]

I think ICW as a whole is the most "you had to be there" promotion of all time. Some of the worst wrestling shows I've ever seen but the formula obviously worked for that crowd at that time.

[FLips]

1 hour ago, LaGoosh said:

I think ICW as a whole is the most "you had to be there" promotion of all time. Some of the worst wrestling shows I've ever seen but the formula obviously worked for that crowd at that time.

Assuming that’s where “household name” (Was it someone on here trying to argue that?) Grado came from then I’ll agree with that. Add him to the craplist with Joe Hendry and Danhausen.

[TheScarlettChad]

Grado was a household name. He was extremely popular and well known. Especially in Scotland.

Not denying he's utter shite though.

[Merzbow]

53 minutes ago, FLips said:

Assuming that’s where “household name” (Was it someone on here trying to argue that?) Grado came from then I’ll agree with that. Add him to the craplist with Joe Hendry and Danhausen.

John Silver is 100 times the comedy wrestler any of those names are, the fact he isn't booked as one of the hottest babyfaces around is actually criminal.

[RedTwoster]

17 minutes ago, TheScarlettChad said:

Grado was a household name. He was extremely popular and well known. Especially in Scotland.

Not denying he's utter shite though.

I don’t think he’s shite, but I agree on your other point - he’s 100% a household name in Scotland. I’d be curious as to how many people who know who he is are aware that he’s a wrestler, though - they might know him from his acting, TV presenting or radio show, but I really don’t know how many people are aware of his background compared to those who are not. 

[gmoney]

20 minutes ago, Merzbow said:

John Silver is 100 times the comedy wrestler any of those names are, the fact he isn't booked as one of the hottest babyfaces around is actually criminal.

He's got about 1/100th of the charisma of Grado. 

[organizedkaos]

3 hours ago, Merzbow said:

John Silver is 100 times the comedy wrestler any of those names are, the fact he isn't booked as one of the hottest babyfaces around is actually criminal.

John Silver never met a moment he couldn't completely undercut by trying to be a meme and that's why he's never going to be a hot babyface. 

I think he has some of the tools to be a great babyface but his detached internet meme lack of sincerity is why he's never going to amount to more than ROH fare (the early deathriders stuff was dumbdumb but I genuinely think he extra undercut it by deliberately making stupid "look how aware i am this is a bit" faces, using nunchucks and trying to replicate some running meme)

I mean I get that the most famous he's every going to be is as a meme but even acts like Orange Cassidy which are kind of based around being a bit have managed to successfully inject sincerity and vunerability into their character thus making you want to see him succeed rather than wanting to laugh along with the joke

(This is an against the grain opinion I hold, it's also been a long day, it might not normally sound this virtriolic, sorry)

[organizedkaos]

Also yes there is a reason Grado (who i've never seen wrestle) is regularly booked as a television presenter and actor and other comedy wrestlers are in improv groups or that weird young bucks youtube show

Not saying it made him the best comedy wrestler ever but yeah his charisma/ability transcends "good for wrestling".  

[LaGoosh]

Back on topic:

HBK vs Undertaker at Wrestlemania 25 is not really very good at all. Additionally the long term influence it had on wrestling in general is entirely negative. 

[BomberPat]

absolutely, though I would go one year earlier and say that "I'm Sorry I Love You" from Shawn Michaels to Ric Flair has done untold damage to wrestling storytelling, and that a lot of the faults of that Undertaker/Shawn match can be traced directly back to it.

I always got the impression that they felt like they had unlocked something in that moment, like the magic trick to doing wrestling storytelling. Because then the Shawn and 'Taker matches are full of "STAY DOWN!" and "WHY WON'T YOU DIE?!" and big shocked faces, and the Triple H/'Taker matches are all melodrama and shocked reaction faces and "end of an era".

What really stood out was how Triple H was desperately reaching for his own "I'm sorry I love you" moment for years there too. The one that stands out is in the Kevin Nash/Triple H ladder match, where Nash is on his knees and offers up the Too Sweet hand symbol to Triple H, who then crotch chops. They clearly thought they were doing something.

That's become main event TV wrestling storytelling now. Loudly saying your motivation, or the story of the match, out loud. Desperately hoping for a Wrestlemania Moment, rather than trusting the match to provide one. I always look back to the Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart I Quit Match, and how Bret never needed to say out loud, "I CAN'T BEAT HIM BY PLAYING FAIR, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO BECOME THE BAD GUY NOW", or how Austin never screamed "NO I'M NOT GOING TO QUIT I WOULD RATHER PASS OUT FROM THE PAIN", because they trusted each other enough and the company trusted them enough to tell that story through actually wrestling.

[LaGoosh]

2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

What really stood out was how Triple H was desperately reaching for his own "I'm sorry I love you" moment for years there too

That's Triple H summed up. Always desperately trying to reach the greatness of his peers but always falling short.

[herbie747]

I just can't get into Will Ospreay matches.

I think Dax Harwood is the best worker in AEW.

MJF is the biggest mark I've ever seen. 

Edited November 6, 2025 by herbie747

[theringmaster]

17 hours ago, LaGoosh said:

Back on topic:

HBK vs Undertaker at Wrestlemania 25 is not really very good at all. Additionally the long term influence it had on wrestling in general is entirely negative. 

It was great watching it live but on rewatch it really doesn't hold up no. and yep, it essentially is now the blueprint for any mania match.

 

My against the grain opinion-ECW December to Dismember 2006 (the only WWE ECW ppv) was a fun show and is fun to rewatch.

[thatvinylgeek]

Stadium Stampedes are an overbooked, complicated mess, which are hard to follow or get invested in and should never have been seen again post covid

War Games would be far better and more unpredictable if you could win the match from the moment it starts, and not waiting for everyone to enter the ring, it renders the vast majority of the match boring and pointless

Dominic Mysterio LOOKS terrible, he really needs to magically shrink a bit, or bulk up