Against the grain wrestling opinions

[air_raid]

On 11/17/2025 at 2:19 PM, herbie747 said:

I think JR is overrated as an announcer and Gorilla is underrated 

I agree. There’s a time when he was 100% the best play by play guy around, but it’s not any of the times people fawn over, for me. In WCW and his early first WWF run he was superb, calling the action but also giving backstory and sharing knowledge/insight about holds etc. Since we were talking about Survivors 96 so much lately, his WWF run peaked for me in 95-96 when he was the second or third guy at the desk, the Mike Tenay figure who shares the why this match means so much/what the thought process behind that abdominal stretch is etc in the lulls between Vince going “what a manoeuvre” - he’s a fucking joy at Survivors 96 but he isn’t the play by play guy. As years rolled by his reliance on catchphrases and bluster got tiresome and as early as 2000 the mistakes were creeping in - lazy ones like calling Benoit “Chris Jericho” when Y2J was nowhere in sight etc - and he generally just started annoying me. None of his famous “great calls” ever resonated with me either, even compared to Vince who’d occasionally capture the moment perfectly with “the boyhood dream… has come true…. for Shawn Michaels” or “THATS GOTTA BE KANE!!”

I dunno, I just went off JR.

Edited November 20, 2025 by air_raid
Typo, mah gawd

[Chili]

Something I'd say about JR is that famous 'As god as my witness he's broken in half' from HIAC is pure genuine in the moment reaction. He and Lawler are mortified, especially Lawler's blunt 'That's it. He's dead' when Foley goes through the roof.

[BarryOVega]

‘They’ve killed him’ added to the moment no end, breaks kayfabe in a harmless way, has it ever been said in a shoot or anything whether the line was planned or if JR really meant it? Seeing Foley come off the top like that would understandably have thrown him a bit

Edited November 20, 2025 by BarryOVega

[air_raid]

I thought Lawler screaming “INCOMING!!” just before Shawn fell off backwards at Bad Blood was the best one, personally.

[DCW]

2001 JR, when he was getting riled up by Heyman for a few months (while King was off getting cheated on by The Kat ) is my favourite version of JR. Best on screen version of Heyman too actually. 

[BarryOVega]

5 minutes ago, DCW said:

2001 JR, when he was getting riled up by Heyman for a few months (while King was off getting cheated on by The Kat ) is my favourite version of JR. Best on screen version of Heyman too actually. 

Had that great moment when Austin and Undertaker were feuding, Heyman was talking about them both and JR said something like ‘how do you know anything about them?’ and Heyman replied ‘I know them from when I managed them both in WCW’ followed by about 5 seconds of silence 

[Chili]

Yeah as @DCW says, JR and Heyman were obviously great. JR got far too comfortable with Lawler especially when he became a sort of tweener with Ross. Heyman really did a great job as a commentator that year. This particular moment from September 2001 is brilliant for Heyman getting JR so legitimately would up, he gets an incredible performance out of him. Honestly, Ross feels like he's seconds away from absolutely lamping the smelly con artist. The call of Wrestlemania X7 is bell to bell a cracker as well. 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2025 by Chili

[TibBo]

“Will somebody stop the damn match?“ is the only part that sounds really genuine to me. All the ‘as god as my witness…’ stuff feels pre-planned and rehearsed 

[Chili]

13 minutes ago, TibBo said:

“Will somebody stop the damn match?“ is the only part that sounds really genuine to me. All the ‘as god as my witness…’ stuff feels pre-planned and rehearsed 

Dunno. I get it, but I think that Foley fall and the ferocity of it really caught them all obviously off guard. But given how JR can be I totally get it. 

If we're talking REAL in commentary, then Jesse Ventura absolutely losing his shit about Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire weighing a coming 455lbs is an all-timer!

"555, I might buy. But no 455!" 

[TheScarlettChad]

2008-2009 JR was insufferable. Just a miserable old bastard. He clearly didn't want to be there at that point.

Edited November 20, 2025 by TheScarlettChad

[air_raid]

8 hours ago, TheScarlettChad said:

2008-2009 JR was insufferable. Just a miserable old bastard. He clearly didn't want to be there at that point.

He didn’t take his relegation to SmackDown with grace. Mind you, he found out live on air, so maybe it’s understandable.

[The Gaffer]

14 hours ago, Chili said:

Yeah as @DCW says, JR and Heyman were obviously great. JR got far too comfortable with Lawler especially when he became a sort of tweener with Ross. Heyman really did a great job as a commentator that year. This particular moment from September 2001 is brilliant for Heyman getting JR so legitimately would up, he gets an incredible performance out of him. Honestly, Ross feels like he's seconds away from absolutely lamping the smelly con artist. The call of Wrestlemania X7 is bell to bell a cracker as well.

Lawler coming back the night after the invasion angle is a huge unacknowledged reason - at least in my book - for WWE's dramatic cooling off in the immediate weeks that followed. 

Regardless of what you think of him, right up until his departure he was at least showing up for the job every Monday. He was never the same from the word go as soon as he came back, though. 

What happens is he immediately seems to settle into the role of babyface legend and JR's sort of tough older brother. The TV dynamic instantly becomes stone cold as 50% of what you're hearing is basically just "I'm here for a nice time tonight, I agree with you JR, The Game is out of control this time. Ha har!" JR loses his foil, too, so has nothing major to bounce off. Just two chums soundtracking a show that's already come out the wrong end of the brand extension. 

 

[TheScarlettChad]

Plus he phoned it in, A lot. And I'd argue he got worse with his noncey comments. Case in point. On said RAW, He said Stacy Keliber I believe it was, was too old for him. She was 20.

[BomberPat]

I can't believe we've come this far into talking about the dregs of JR's career, and not talked about the period post-brand split where he was constantly a part of angles, and booked to wrestle multiple matches. When people talk about the worst things WWE ever booked, it amazes me that JR & King wrestling Jonathan Coachman & Al Snow for the right to commentate RAW - in a match with no commentary because the announce teams were in the match - never gets a mention. Absolute dogshit that they tried to present JR as some kind of hard man.

[BarryOVega]

6 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

I can't believe we've come this far into talking about the dregs of JR's career, and not talked about the period post-brand split where he was constantly a part of angles, and booked to wrestle multiple matches. When people talk about the worst things WWE ever booked, it amazes me that JR & King wrestling Jonathan Coachman & Al Snow for the right to commentate RAW - in a match with no commentary because the announce teams were in the match - never gets a mention. Absolute dogshit that they tried to present JR as some kind of hard man.

Absolutely, I remember him coming out for a match with Coach chewing gum and swaggering his shoulders acting all cocky to the referee, not only was it laughable him being in matches in the first place but him pretending to be Stone Cold’s fat sad cunt uncle made him completely unlikeable anyway, I cheered when him and Lawler lost the match for the right to commentate on Raw