The Simpsons

[Loki]

I alway enjoyed the film references even when they were blatant, like Principal Skinner

 

 

[BomberPat]

Some of it will be that a lot of what they're referencing will have been more culturally relevant at the time than it is now, but mostly it's just really, really smart writing. 

On a similar note, I read an interview with some of the guys behind Mystery Science Theater 3000, who were always prone to some pretty obscure frames of reference and very nerdy jokes, and they rationalised that the jokes came quick enough that if you didn't get the reference it didn't matter, because another joke is along in three seconds anyway. The Simpsons at its peak just had that same level of confidence in its audience, as much as in the quality of its own writing, and I just don't think it (or much of anything) has that any more.

It's like Airplane! - more jokes per minute than any other movie you could name, and a ton of references that I never got until I read about them years later, but which never mattered because either the joke still functioned even if you didn't understand what it was referencing, or there were three other jokes happening in the same minute anyway. 

 

@Loki - one of the first times you see the inside of Skinner's house, I'm sure the layout is modelled on the Bates Motel then as well, so they keep that joke going for a while.

Edited August 18, 2023 by BomberPat

[Loki]

Principal Skinner is my favourite character

 

 

Edit: I watched both Airplane 1 and 2 a few weeks ago. The second one is honestly still really funny even if it's not to the same level as the first.  Shatner in particular is great.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Loki

[SuperBacon]

On the references, I'm not actually sure they particularly cared if the audience got it or not.

Those massive comedy writing rooms were all about making your peers laugh more than anything.

I'm not saying they didn't care about audience reaction but I don't think it was their priority. 

@Loki agree on the Airplane! thought. 2 is great.

Edited August 18, 2023 by SuperBacon

[lanky316]

I guess if you've got a room of a dozen comedians the theory is "well we find it funny, I'm sure it'll work out fine with audiences". So when it came to throwing out random references from wherever there'll be a "yeah not all will get it but those who do will be howling". As was said before, the strength was that the point wouldn't be laboured and that there'll be something else soon enough. Similar to how guest stars would fit in - while many love "the softball episode" I blame this for a decline in part with trying to recreate the magic - they'd either be playing someone else or in a small part moving through. Later, they would try and shoe horn more in like the - often outdated pop culture references and memes - usually with a "tongue in cheek" comment from someone along the lines of "wow Marge, it's star of that tv show people like, insert name here!". A far cry from the days of Lucius Sweet who was "as rich and famous as Don King!" I know they couldn't actually get King in for the cameo but like Wolfcastle as a quick gag was far better than how when they could get in seemingly whoever they wanted it would be forced in. On that note it's worth taking into account that some of the worst episodes were celeb heavy. I'd still put the Gervais episode as the worst. episode. ever.

[Wideload90]

I still watch Simpsons and know that the last 20 years have been full of tripe. Regardless, there's plenty to watch and I love looking back with older eyes on the earlier episodes.

Steamed hams is the peak for me. I still occasionally say "Good LORD what is happening in there?" In the style of Super Nintendo Chalmers whenever my children have made a mess. 

Shit Simpsons is better than the majority of animated garbage. F is for family and King of the Hill excluded.

Chalmskin.

[Joe Blog]

“Do you do it with relish?”

”No I’m kind of embarrassed about it.”

Adore this exchange so much. 

[LaGoosh]

There's more brilliant jokes in this 80 seconds than in 99% of 90 minute + comedy films. And the whole episode keeps up this pace. It really cannot be understated how next level peak Simpsons is. Genuinely no other comedy reaches those heights. I think perhaps only peak Seinfeld or Arrested Development season 2 get anywhere close.

I love just how weird and specific the jokes were too. Like Barney and the baseball player having a drunken brawl over who was the better British Prime Minister. 

"LORD PALMERSTON!"

"PITT THE ELDER!"

My mind just can't conceive of how someone can come up with such a specific joke that's so unusual and amazing.

[SuperBacon]

Peak Simpsons? THIS is peak Simpsons.

I also had the Uncensored Photo Album and this bad boy. 

I've just seen the wonderful updated version in the big red box and think I might have to buy it.

If anyone has any book recommendations, feel free to chuck them in here. I have the Simpsons Confidential one, but have never read it.

Same goes for podcast recommendations, video essays, articles etc.

I started one of the pods (Four Finger Discount maybe?) but I think one of the hosts annoyed me so gave up.

[Bellenda Carlisle]

13 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

If anyone has any book recommendations, feel free to chuck them in here. I have the Simpsons Confidential one, but have never read it.

Same goes for podcast recommendations, video essays, articles etc.

I quite like some of this guy's Simpsons deep dives https://youtube.com/@TheRealJims

 

[wordsfromlee]

This was my bible growing up. I took it everywhere with me and would always have it to hand when watching the show so I could read about the episode along with it. Basically like reading the episodes IMDB page. It lists all the episodes, and their writer/director/release date/couch gag/characters featured/homages to other movies & TV/trivia/notes. Proper nerd shit. There aren't even any pictures. I loved it though.

My main gripe with modern day Simpsons is that its now so fast paced and "wacky". These days theres always a mini-plot at the start of the episode to set up the main plot. Therefore the main plot gets condensed from what would have been 22 minutes to about 15. Everything is so quick and nothing gets time to breathe any more. Every single line of dialog seemingly has to have a joke in it and it gets exhausting at times.

The thing I loved about the 'golden era' Simpsons is that the scripts felt like they weren't necessarily written for an animated show. You could have taken them and made live action versions and they'd still work. Nowadays theres no way the current episodes would work with real actors. Compare an episodes like season two's 'Lisa's Substitute' (featuring a masterclass from Dustin Hoffman) and any episode from the last 15 years. They're like two completely different shows.

I read former show runner Mike Reiss' memoir - Springfield Confidential - about his time writing for the show during the early years and it's well worth a read.

 

[SuperBacon]

33 minutes ago, wordsfromlee said:

former show runner Mike Reiss' memoir - Springfield Confidential - about his time writing for the show during the early years and it's well worth a read

Yeah that's the one I have. I think I'll start a rewatch and read it at the same time.

[jm29195]

I think there was a time when it seemed they started regularly having celebrities on it, particularly playing themselves, and it just seemed a bit lazy.

Love seasons 1-9 though, but was astounded, watching them through lockdown with my children, getting to season 20 and there still being so much more to come. We just gave up.

[Chest Rockwell]

1 hour ago, wordsfromlee said:

These days theres always a mini-plot at the start of the episode to set up the main plot. Therefore the main plot gets condensed from what would have been 22 minutes to about 15. Everything is so quick and nothing gets time to breathe any more. Every single line of dialog seemingly has to have a joke in it and it gets exhausting at times.

Isn't that 'mini plot' intro the format to all the classic episodes as well? 

And in terms of the number of jokes it was always packed with jokes during the 'peak' run. . 

I haven't watched the new stuff so can't comment on these criticisms from that perspective. 

Anyway. Part of the reason why we won't agree an accurate consensus of what's wrong with the 'newer episodes' is because that period covers decades, and the majority of the show's output. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Chest Rockwell

[wordsfromlee]

8 hours ago, Chest Rockwell said:

Isn't that 'mini plot' intro the format to all the classic episodes as well? 

Not really, no. Take the 'Lisa's Substitute' episode I mentioned. It opens with Miss Hoover telling the class she'll be taking a leave of absence and that they'll be having a substitute teacher to replace her for a while. But in an episode like season 10's 'Thirty Minutes over Tokyo' (which the general consensus seems to say is about the point where the quality starts to fall), the plot summary is:

"While visiting an Internet café with Bart and Lisa, Homer is cyber-robbed by Snake, who downloads the savings that the family planned to use for a vacation. Homer attempts to save money by burgling Ned Flanders, who catches him and explains that he learned thrifting strategies from attending the Chuck Garabedian Mega-Savings Seminar. Homer steals Ned's tickets for the next seminar, where he and Marge learn they can afford a family vacation by buying unclaimed airline tickets for a discount price. The family wait at the airport for a cancellation and claim tickets from the Flanders for Tokyo."

...and then the main storyline starts. The whole first act is an intro. Obviously its not every single episode. But it's way more often than not.

I always found it funny when they go to a foreign country and the whole episode is full of cliche, hack jokes about stereotypes. But when they do an episode that involves the family going to a different major US city, it's just 20 minutes of them saying how amazing the place is.

I agree that the golden era was packed full of jokes, but the modern stuff seems to have every single line of dialog as a joke, whether is needs it/it works or not.