AEW Double Or Nothing 2023 discussion

[DavidB6937]

After watching this I honestly can't decide if the extra TV time is a good thing or not. On a personal level my interest in AEW is hitting all time low levels despite the awesome Elite stuff so I doubt I'll bother with the new show. But from their perspective I don't know if it spreads them too thin or actually allows them to invest much needed time and effort in other acts. I guess only time will tell on that one. I imagine it'll be much like ROH where they might strike gold with a few like Athena but on the whole it won't exactly be must-watch.

[Infinity Land]

With the new show coming up it just made me think that ROH is now superfluous.

Athena's going to be needed. Jamie out injured. It's not clear what state Thunder Rosa will be in despite being used in the promotional materials. One of the first news stories I saw catching up after the PPV was Jade Cargill taking some time off, at a guess spending summer holidays with her kid.

Samoa Joe as everyone has seen is being used prominently in the marketing.

Something like the thrown together tag team of Darius Martin & Action Andretti was one of those AEW staples. Often with his brother funnily enough.

Mark Briscoe, Luchas, Claudio all being used already.

There's so much filler on ROH that's just Dark under another name to get to a 2hr runtime. Going on the road isn't going to help create its own identity. The stuff that works can be used for Collision instead. Use that hour for traditional dark matches instead so people can get proper reps in front of a live crowd.

[Fatty Facesitter]

Overall - I don’t think it’s their best DoN and perhaps by their lofty PPV standards it wasn’t quite Carling look g at the overall picture of things. But fuck me, those two main events were spectacular. That’s not to say there isn’t other great stuff on the show, because there absolutely is, but there were a few elements that perhaps didn’t quite live up to the hype. 

👍 Four Pillars - An absolutely incredible standard from all four men. Some ridiculously eye-catching and beautifully executed spots and some ferocious intensity displayed from bell to bell. So many beautiful touches added including the application of some of their mentor’s finishers, Sammy trying to sucker MJF in by pretending to lay down only to roll him up, Jungle Boy torn between twatting Darby Allen with the title belt and Max’s words saying he lacked killer instinct, and much much more. That’s without even mentioning that despicable bastard MJF using that headlock takeover again. A masterpiece and up there with the promotion’s best ever matches. 

👍 Anarchy in the Arena - I’ll be totally honest and say I hated the start. I know the whole point of the match is that it’s total chaos, and it might just be the odd camera cuts and direction from the truck, but the combination of the spread of locations and the awful live music performance made it a really tough viewing experience as it was just noise and not in a good way. However! Bloody hell, once the focus narrowed to the ring and the general ringside area, it was a mesmerising and glorious symphony of carnage. Takeshita’s reveal at the end was an interesting and bold call - one wonders if we might get Kota Ibushi thrown into the mix now and some sort of mad 5-on-5 at Forbidden Door. Bloody, but brilliant. 

👍 Blackjack Battle Royale - Finish was electric and there were some other interesting parts of the match that I think made it the best choice for the opener. There’s a real decision to make now with regards to Orange Cassidy and the International title - do they carry on with the reign and risk it running out of steam, or do they find a way to bring it to natural end and move him up the card, possibly even into a programme with MJF heading into the rest of the summer? We’re at a crossroads and if anything the next few weeks of booking are arguably the most important for the Orange Cassidy character and just how massive it could go on to become. 

👍 FTR vs JJ/Jay Lethal - This one dragged a bit, but there was lots of fun shithousery from the heels and it escalated brilliantly towards the end. Jarrett celebrating prematurely after the stroke was a thing of beauty. This culminated the storyline involved Mark Briscoe quite nicely. 

👍 Wardlow vs Christian Cage - One spot aside where the ladder gave in on them (and one other thing I’ve mentioned in the thumbs down bit), a thoroughly entertaining brawl. Christian wearing the turtleneck attire was a nice tough. Wardlow’s swanton off the ladder to Luchasaurus will be replayed many times over the years on DoN highlight reels (and indeed his own career showreel).  

👍 Jamie Hayter vs Toni Storm - Fair play to Hayter for gutting it out to ensure the title changed hands in a competitive setting - they threw a lot of smoke and mirrors (and spray paint) at it and it was still an entertaining wider brawl between the respective factions. 

👎 Chris Jericho vs Adam Cole - Disappointing. It didn’t lack in effort or physicality, but it dragged on and the finish - whilst you can see what they were going for on paper - seemed a bit soft in terms of the actual execution. The Y2J/Strong brawl on Dynamite was a better showcase. 

👎 Arn Anderson biting Luchasaurus’ thumb. Bit of a mad spot - almost too mad. 

👎 House of Black vs Acclaimed - Nothing terrible, but they built up the hot tag to Billy for so long only to cut short his momentum in an anti-climatic fashion at the end. Again, generally fine but not something you’ll remember by the time the next Dynamite comes round. 

👎 TBS title business - Not a fan of any of this. The match between Taya and Jade did have some good moments but as with previous defences it was far too easy to spot the outcome and you never felt like there was any serious jeopardy. As for Statlander’s return and taking the title, it was over so quickly and I think they missed a trick by not running with that match in the first place for a longer duration. Jade’s title run had run its course though and at least it’s a new direction. 

[WeeAl]

The main event was fun mayhem, as we expected it would be. A good decision made here to close with this, especially with the finishing angle/turn. The title match was also excellent in the end up, despite the nonsense build. The most interesting thing was always going to be who they chose to beat and I was surprised to see that be Darby. Good enough for the prick. Those two matches saved this show completely though. 

Orange Cassidy and Swerve had a lovely closing stretch to that battle royale, and I was delighted to see Cassidy keep the belt. Outside of that though everything else on this undercard was straight out of the deep freeze. 

There's an issue with this Wednesday-Sunday stuff for PPV's when you expect a travelling audience. The attendance looked very low on Wednesday, which tells me they didn't get many people travelling in. Possibly leaving you with a local Vegas crowd, which doesn't have a great rep.

AEW struggled in the Bay Area in February as well and that was their first time in the market (though a poor market for wrestling modern day). I think with this new show coming AEW would be better served to do the two nights in a row Sat/Sun from the one building, but the Wednesday before being the end of the previous run in a totally different area. Needing travelling fans to stay five nights is a big ask when you're relying on travelling fans to fill the house. Especially if some of those same people have done five nights in Vegas and react like a bunch of zombies on your big Sunday night show. 

I absolutely can't be having The Dark Order. Malaki Black and Bray Wyatt should start their own promotion somewhere in Parts Unknown. That's the box Malaki belongs too. Change the channel nonsense he his. 

Hopefully this should prove to everyone who thought Adam Cole may be the big challenger for MJF at All In or All Out (Meltzer) that Cole just doesn't have it. This was the polar opposite from that ball of fun that Jericho had with Roderick Strong there recently. Roddy Strong! Add Cole and Strong to the tag division and that could work but he's not going to cut it anywhere near the top of the card. 

Wardlow and Christian gave it socks but the crowd didn't give a toss. Wardlow is going to take a heck of a lot of reheating. Maybe he'll get back some of what he had if they hold the course but his booking post MJF hasn't done him any favours at all. 

The tag title match was way, way too long. It hit it's stride towards the end but that wasn't enough to save it from being an overall negative. 

The two women's matches weren't of any benefit to the show either. I've yet to be impressed by Storm or Valkyrie. Jade losing the belt at least meant there was something of note coming out of this though. Storm winning felt like trying to make the best of a bad situation rather than being what would have been done had Hayter been 100%. 

No PPV level show now until Wembley, yet MJF is going to need something to stick his teeth into. Does he hand Darby another loss in the meantime heading into a defence against Sting at All In? It'd be hard to get three months out of that. Or does Punk get the opportunity to get injured again right as he's given the belt? 

Looking forward to, before the feud is blown off, potentially getting some of the following over the next while: Kenny Vs Claudio, Danielson/Mox Vs Hangman/Omega, Bucks Vs Yuta/Claudio, Omega Vs Takeshita, Danielson/Omega re-match, Hangman/Takeshita re-match, Takeshita/Nick Jackson. Any of those would be lovely. 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

The thing about AEW is that the PPV's stand out as genuinely special because they have so few per year. That usually makes the crowds red hot and fans fly in from all over for them. This crowd was colder than an emperor penguins biffin bridge and perhaps there is a perfectly good reason why. The show at Wembley is extra special. People don't have an unlimited budget and perhaps the die hard fans having already forked out for flights to London just didn't make the trip.  Perhaps the majority of the fans were local, or just people on holiday in Vegas who popped into the wrestling because it was on. 

I've nothing to add about the show that hasn't already been said except for a couple of things. Unsanctioned matches are always shit. This was even worse than usual. A referee stoppage in an unsanctioned match is a new low. I wasn't as keen on the main event as everyone else. I'm not the biggest fan of that style of match, and exploding superkicks aside there wasn't anything you wouldn't see in any other Moxley match. It was just spread out over more people. I suppose the match was required to drive the storyline with Dirty Don and Takeshita forward, but a match like that really needs to be an ending not a midpoint to a storyline. 

[Infinity Land]

7 hours ago, WeeAl said:

No PPV level show now until Wembley

Forbidden Door is at the end of June. Only thing guaranteed at the moment is Kenny Omega defending the IWGP US title against Will Ospreay or Lance Archer.

[theringmaster]

I think the problem AEW have is because they do a handful of PPV's a year, they do quite a few special Dynamites a year, which are usually really good 2 hours shows. Now this show to me felt like one of those special Dynamites, if this was on Wednesday night we would all probably have a different view.

The main problem was the Four Pillars build, although the match was really good in the end, nobody bought into the possibility of a new Champion. Much like Hangman before, MJF as champion is proving a headache for the booking team. I think they jumped the gun with putting the belt on him so early because now it already feels like they need to get the strap off him.

I liked the Statlander return and title win, it felt a good ending to Cargill reign and helps keeps her strong (still can't decide if her entrance was cool or naff though?)

[BomberPat]

Agreed that this felt like an extended edition of Dynamite more than a PPV. Definitely feels like the worst AEW PPV yet, which is no huge criticism as the standard is usually very high, and there's still not been that many, so one of them has to be the worst, it's just a shame it's the one I stayed up til 5am watching after a day-long music festival. 

The pre-show match was abysmal. Jeff Hardy looked absolutely knackered after two moves, and was tripping over his feet to the point that I was genuinely concerned when he went to the top rope. The fact that a guy who made his name on high-flying is resorting to the middle rope falling forward splash should be the sign for him to pack it in, even without considering his issues outside of the ring. I can see why a promoter would want to get something out of a final run for the Hardys, but this match should be giving them pause to consider whether it's worth it, as I don't think there's many teams on the roster that could drag them to a watchable match when Jeff can barely perform any of his signature moves any more, and Matt Hardy is Matt Hardy. No one else in this match was really setting the world alight either, though. And the finish means that it's not over, we've got more Matt Hardy contract nonsense to come. Ugh. The worst AEW trope going.

The Battle Royal was superb. For everyone shitting on the crowd, there were points during this match that they were super into it, which is a testament to how well put together a Battle Royal it was, and how much the rest of the show (read: Jericho/Cole) sapped their energy. Finishing stretch is up there with Cody/Gunther, and probably better, in terms of working an exciting "final two", with the psychology entirely built around trying to eliminate each other. I loved Komander finding a way to fit his big rope walk dive in by not technically "entering the ring" at the start of it, but mostly my biggest criticism of this match was the rule that "you only officially enter the match when you get inside the ring". It made anyone not waiting around until the field thinned out look like an idiot, made me question why you'd announce 21 people as being in a match, give them all entrances, and then say "oh, but they're not officially in the match yet", or why a referee would ring the bell to start a 21 man match before all 21 men were in the ring. It was a real "have your cake and eat it too" bit of booking, to let people do dives and high spots in a match that should prohibit them.

Jericho/Cole was absolutely abysmal. Played to neither man's strength, and was never believably violent or intense enough for the finish to actually make sense. Wrapping chains around limbs has never looked good, because every time they try it you just watch someone fumbling with a length of chain only for it to fall off anyway. Rubbish. I hate "unsanctioned matches" as a concept in general - if it's "unsanctioned" by AEW, why is it happening on an AEW pay-per-view, why are they promoting it, why is there an AEW referee assigned to it? Some promotions have done it well - I think it was CHIKARA who covered up their logo, and had the referee in a plain polo shirt rather than a branded ref shirt, things like that to show "the promotion isn't responsible for this". To say it's unsanctioned, that AEW aren't liable for anything that happens, and then have an AEW official stop the match because Jericho couldn't defend himself, it just doesn't add up. Particularly when Jericho's then back doing a promo later in the night, and wrestling on Dynamite anyway. And the Dynamite match, fucking hell. Imagine watching this and thinking "you know what this match needs? Saraya".

Tag Title match was match of the night for me. Just a load of Jeff Jarrett business, lovely. I still don't rate Jay Lethal, and feel you could stick basically anyone in that spot and it still work, because it's JJ doing all the heavy lifting for the team. It was basically the Jeff Jarrett and Mark Briscoe show, and I'm fine with that. Jeff did his best bit of carny business, doing a full-blown cartoon supervillain celebration after hitting his finish, and I love it every time. 

Christian vs. Wardlow was fine. Christian was working smart, which is always entertaining to watch, and despite never being a big fan of his, I've enjoyed his work in AEW. Wardlow was not doing that, and was working a very odd match bar a few spots, so this never really felt like it gelled. I spent the last third of the match worried for Arn Anderson's wellbeing.

I kept falling asleep during the "Four Pillars" match. It's getting good reviews, so I should probably watch it properly, but what I saw felt like an indie scramble rather than a main event World Title match. All the worst tropes of multi-man matches - "you do your bit, then I do mine". I saw a clip of them all doing their "mentor's" finishers, and hated it.

Jamie vs. Toni was what it was. There was a spot on the outside where Toni whiffed it on a dropkick into the steps, and Jamie audibly told her to do it again so it looked better. What a pro. I figured Jamie might lose the belt, because winning it at Wembley will be a bigger moment than defending it as Wembley, and as soon as they had her music stop, I figured we were getting an extended injury angle rather than a "proper" match. The finish was awful - they were totally out of position, so Jamie had to awkwardly run herself into the turnbuckle, which made it all look very unconvincing. The polar opposite of the "do it again and make it look better" spot from the start of the match.

Taya vs. Jade was fine, Kris Statlander coming back and beating Jade was good, not necessarily how I'd have done it - I thought Jade was going to back down when she came out, and duck her for a couple of weeks, rather than agreeing to the match there and then, but it makes sense to protect Jade in her first loss by having her already have gone through a match. Not a great way for a babyface to win her first belt, but that's nitpicking - it's a "heels hoisted by their own petard" moment anyway.

Main event was lovely, just brilliant mad chaos, and showing that The Elite can do more than just flippy nonsense. Loved seeing Danielson really mix it up after weeks of worrying why he wasn't taking bumps. 

The closing angle was interesting - once again, it's being kept ambiguous whether Don (and now Takeshita) are working with the BCC or just against Kenny, and I think it's the latter. The problem with that angle, though, is that it meant closing the show on a down-note, which after 4+ hours of wrestling leaves you feeling a little deflated - and it wasn't a big enough angle to make you go "I have to tune into Dynamite to see how this pans out!" because there's no great explanation for why Takeshita would work with Don Callis against Kenny, the relationships there just aren't established enough. I kept watching because part of me was convinced that, while the heels were all standing around at the end, Kota Ibushi or someone was going to come out to confront them, that they wouldn't just end the show on that.

 

I think AEW's weakest shows always come when they're juggling too many plates. There were things on this show which felt like a step towards another show, whether that's Wembley or Collision or Forbidden Door. With only a handful of PPVs a year, it doesn't feel right that the shows you pay for are the ones laying foundations for what comes next - WWF, WCW and TNA all had points where the PPVs felt like they were setting up for something on TV, rather than the other way around, and always suffered for it, in my view. 

[JimmyAnderson]

The buy-in was a precursor of what was to come before any in-ring action actually started. It had the mishaps of Renee calling Paul Wight "Show" a couple of times and it had the high moments of Stokeley calling himself a giant and all the others corpsing.

The actual match was a bit of a shambles, as has been stated with Jeff Hardy looking worse than Matt. The Gunns and Hook deserve much better than this. 

Once the PPV got going, it seemed like every match was having the same problems of mishaps and moments of brilliance. The battle royal for instance, doesn't begin until somebody actually gets in the ring but JR telling us all on commentary that it makes no sense whatsoever to stay on the outside. Hang on Jim, it makes fucking perfect sense in that case. What doesn't make sense is why anybody would get into the ring. Let the others destroy themelseves while you stand and pick up the pieces. Interesting that Cassidy was indirectly responsible for the elimination for both members of Best Friends. Low bridging for Chuck to go over the top and Trent taking the bullet for OC. I don't think a heel turn as such is where they'll go with Cassidy but him going to deeper lengths to retain his title, especially as his body gives up on him, would be another layer to his character. Showing he'll do anything to keep the championship, including turning on his friends.

Jericho/Cole probably had the best build for the PPV and the worst match. 

FTR v Jarrett & Lethal was maybe a tad too long but overall an enjoyable match, especially the ending. JR screaming at Sonjay Dutt (or at least that was what Excalibur claimed) was unintentionally funny. Can't remember if this was the match where JR corrected Taz on something and Taz responded with "just get me a shovel next time". Not sure I'm looking forward to FTR v Bullet Club though, which given they helped Starks chase away White & Robinson, suggests they're going to go that way. Or bringing in a third member for Bullet Club for a trios match.

I enjoyed the Wardlow/Christian match more than most it seems. His tribute to the Hardy's was a nice touch against one of their long-time rivals. And his swanton off the top of the ladder will be shown for years. I don't think is anyone clamouring for a Wardlow/Hardy match though. He does need something big next though to try and get him back to where he once was. 10 second squashes on Dynamite aren't going to do it anymore. Him against Jarrett could be fun and Jarrett would do everything in his power to get Wardlow over.

Hayter and Storm was a cock up from start to finish. Poor Jamie. Hopefully she can heal up and be done with this load of bollocks.

Trios match had the potential to be a belter but fell on it's arse. The rules thing makes no sense at all. Any three blokes can make a team and challenge. Wasn't that the case anyway? The opposition can make their own rule but don't make a rule that guarantees a victory for them. And the fucking lighting bollocks need binning off.

Jade v Taya/Statlander should have been a huge moment but instead it felt like "oh so Jade isn't champion anymore. ok". Statlander is going to have do some great work to actually make people care about her and the title. Jade has already beaten most of the division and those she hasn't are clogging up the women's title scene anyway. So there's no thrill in seeing Statlander beat a Red Velvet, Taya, Nyla Rose or any of the others because Jade has already squashed all of them. It could end up like the TNT Title where it originally became an important secondary title then ends up where nobody really gives a toss about it.

Can't say I was a fan of the World Title match mainly because it was one of those over choreographed things, where they all do the same thing to try and make it look like they're all one level. MJF punches Darby, so Darby then staggers to hit Sammy, who then staggers to hit Perry, who then staggers to hit MJF. Why? Just fucking lamp the cunt who hit you. Then let's all take turns doing canadian destoryers. Then let's take turns at doing suicide dives. Then let's take turns at doing our mentors moves. The only part that I enjoyed was where they all had a submission move on another. It's something AEW does all too often as well, the Lucha Bros and Young Bucks had similar things where they'd do the same moves. MJF winning was always a given as well, which probably didn't help matters. 

Main event though was boss. I like the commentary team not knowing what was going on, it added to the chaos rather than them calling spots that they were already aware would be happening. Made it feel more frantic. The higher ups are obviously very keen on Yuta and giving him the pinfall here was proof of that. He being the one to dethrone Orange Cassidy is something I could see them doing, especially with their history. Hiding behind the BCC who beat the shit out of Cassidy for Yuta to get the win. The Takeshita reveal wasn't all that surprising but still a good choice. Him against Omega is going to be outstanding. I'd like to see Danielson take a step in the direction Taz did when he was managing Team Taz or even Regal with the BCC where they'd only do commentary when their boys were wrestling, I think that'd allow him to stay on screen without wrecking his body up any more until the time comes where he has to be in the ring. Not sure where Mox can go after this feud though, as we all want Hangman to move on to becoming the man who stops MJF's reign as champ. 

Wasn't their best PPV by any means but it was bookeneded by two great multi-man matches. And there was enough in between for most fans to find something they'll enjoy. 

[Accident Prone]

11 hours ago, Infinity Land said:

Forbidden Door is at the end of June. Only thing guaranteed at the moment is Kenny Omega defending the IWGP US title against Will Ospreay or Lance Archer.

I know Ospreay vs Omega 2 is THE match, but Omega vs Archer sounds like a grand old time. I'd really like to see what those two could so with fifteen minutes in a relaxed rules environment.

[TildeGuy~!]

New Japan have been teasing Moxley Vs Okada for the last couple of months so that could be a real possibility.

[Loki]

2 hours ago, JimmyAnderson said:

Can't say I was a fan of the World Title match mainly because it was one of those over choreographed things, where they all do the same thing to try and make it look like they're all one level. MJF punches Darby, so Darby then staggers to hit Sammy, who then staggers to hit Perry, who then staggers to hit MJF. Why? Just fucking lamp the cunt who hit you. Then let's all take turns doing canadian destoryers. Then let's take turns at doing suicide dives. Then let's take turns at doing our mentors moves

My feelings exactly on this match, it’s very much the AEW style I enjoy the least.  Thank God for MJF and his top heel work, that made this somewhat entertaining.  Otherwise, honestly it reminded me of this early TNA scramble matches in the X division. I can’t really see the other 3 becoming the company’s top stars, in the same way Elix Skipper and Amazing Red didn’t.

 If anything this match just cemented my opinion that the whole 4 Pillars thing is bollocks.

[LaGoosh]

2 minutes ago, Loki said:

If anything this match just cemented my opinion that the whole 4 Pillars thing is bollocks.

Does anyone buy into the Four Pillars thing? It's never made any sense at all. I think the fact that no one believes it is one of the main reasons the title match was lacking hype.

[DavidB6937]

4 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

Does anyone buy into the Four Pillars thing? It's never made any sense at all. I think the fact that no one believes it is one of the main reasons the title match was lacking hype.

Die hard AEW fans do absolutely. But it's not them that need to be won over.

[CavemanLynn]

I think a lot of people bought into the Four Pillars as an investment in a future based on homegrown stars. But they let all four cool off with meandering booking, and then hotshotted what should've been a year's worth of separate angles and marquee matches into one multi man clusterfuck.