CM Punk chat

[organizedkaos]

Realistically every employee has probably been told not to talk about the subject at all and anyone we hear talk about it has probably been vetted. It's not outlandish for a visible company to take the line that any time an employee speaks about the company you can be interpretted as being a spokesperson for them

[Infinity Land]

3 hours ago, Lorne Malvo said:

We may aswell go full Tiger Rick and call out anybody who has ever worked with, for or in association with WWE at any point in the last 40 years then.

I'm absolutely fuming Koko B. Ware hasn't said anything yet, and it's nothing to do with the fact he left CWA for the WWF, honest.

You can take the piss about Koko B Ware, but if he has anything to add to the conversation. Sure why not ask him? Not sure too many people would have a clue about Nick Kiniski yet he's talking about his experiences.

Randy Orton, Becky Lynch, Cody Rhodes and numerous others have been asked to comment on Vince and the culture of WWE since the lawsuit became public, CM Punk isn't being singled out and it's not surprising the public would want to hear from him on the topic as he has been a vocal critic of Vince and WWE management from his own personal experience.

CM Punk was in OVW when someone was sent down that was part of the NDA payments. Recently, people dug up on an old WON screenshot around the rumours why Mikey Batts was really fired back in 2006. So if there were contemporary internet rumours around management back then and all that's came out since. Why wouldn't you want to ask someone that was there?

 

[Bettencourt]

I think when there’s an on-going legal investigation etc going on it’s usually best to not throw about comments on it. I’m sure Punk and countless others will have been advised of this for one reason or another. 
 

It’s once the legal investigations are over and done with and those who were complicit held accountable then any silence would be more than deafening. 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

Just now, Bettencourt said:

I think when there’s an on-going legal investigation etc going on it’s usually best to not throw about comments on it. I’m sure Punk and countless others will have been advised of this for one reason or another. 
 

It’s once the legal investigations are over and done with and those who were complicit held accountable then any silence would be more than deafening. 

Common sense has entered the chat. 

[SuperBacon]

I don't really think any of us adults should be looking at anyone in wrestling for morality but that's just my opinion. 

But I can imagine for a trans person (especially young people) seeing the public declarations of support from Punk, Omega, Cody, it means the absolute world.

And he makes mistakes, we all do. I was a bit disappointed when I read about The Trevor Project stuff after having bought a shirt, but I'd like to think his heart was in the right place. He didn't have to do that.

And also, sorry, let's not get it twisted, most of the Punk criticism is mostly because he annoyed Tony Khan and in turn AEW, and that's (pathetically) what people have an issue with.

@Nick James said it best earlier, spot on. Point scoring for your favourite wrestling promotion. Fucking grow up.

[Hannibal Scorch]

no @SuperBacon you clearly made your point ignoring what was said. I and others explained the disappointment and unlike comments that have been made about him and his reason for getting fired previously, this wasn’t it. This is about what the man has done in support of women and LGBTQ+ in the past and questioning why he’s kept quiet on this.

And some good points have been made as to why and I hope that’s what it is. Because I would like to think his comments and statements were genuine. You moan about point scoring and that’s what you’ve tried to do. 
 

Still, rather he kept quiet about an awful situation and not embarrass himself like Cena did, or make jokes on twitter making fun of the US Army man who set himself on fire in protest at Israel’s refusal for a ceasefire like Paul Heyman did today.

[DavidB6937]

I think perhaps if you're wanting people to have a serious conversation about sexual allegations and their cover ups, posting a meme without any comment or genuine discussion isn't the way to start it then. Probably something to learn from. Especially if you're someone that's incredibly pro-AEW and anti-WWE most of the time anyway.

And that's fine, we're all allowed our opinions and bias, but I don't think you can be surprised if some people don't take you seriously or don't want to listen with that initial approach.

[RedRooster]

10 hours ago, SuperBacon said:

But I can imagine for a trans person (especially young people) seeing the public declarations of support from Punk, Omega, Cody, it means the absolute world.

 

100% this. I also don't buy into it being 'performative'. There's little to be gained from being an ally to trans people as far as building your own reputation goes. Transphobia is rampant right now, to the point we have situations where - when a young trans girl is murdered in the UK - people rushing in on social media to 'correct' her gender and generally get wrapped up in that discussion as opposed to the awfulness of the crime and transphobia that it involved. Being transphobic is a cornerstone of some politic parties - an effective campaign tactic. 

Yes, you'll get some people on side - but you'll alienate many others. Which makes it more likely than not that it comes from a good place. 

Are their inconsistencies and contradictions based on other behaviours? Well yeah, but we all have those. Given what he's done and said, I think supporting Donald Trump borders on evil; yet I watched and enjoyed the new Frasier. I've given AEW another chance, but I feel utterly disgusted by the presence of their army of sex pests. I'm watching WWE, even though Vince McMahon exists. 

I could go on, but we all have them. They're not necessarily blindspots either, there's so much shit in the world that it's hard to avoid it. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

Also, people can't possibly believe that people with progressive views about the LGBTQ+ community can only work for companies with crystal clean histories and reputations? The majority of people would be out of work.

Life, and work, is a contradiction. Every day we have to engage with, and sometimes work for, companies that have people in their leadership who we'd feel utterly repulsed by on a one to one basis.

Couple that with the fact that in wrestling there are two companies to work for and he's persona non grata in one, plus the shitstorm that I imagine would come if he did say anything combative about Vince, I think this is all much ado about nothing.

It's a uniquely CM Punk pickle that he's judge by higher standards on moral issues, yet would be judged with double standards if he did speak up about Vince or WWE. The amount of articles that'd be published immediately like LOCKER ROOM REACTION AS PUNK SLAMS WWE or ROLLINS STORMS OUT AS PUNK COMMENTS NOT WELCOME or DREW LAUGHS AT PUNK AS HE'S ESCORTED FROM BUILDING... it's just not worth it.

He's better off keeping his nut down and working dickheads like me with Instagram stories about video games.

Edited February 28 by d-d-d-dAz

[Hannibal Scorch]

2 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

I think perhaps if you're wanting people to have a serious conversation about sexual allegations and their cover ups, posting a meme without any comment or genuine discussion isn't the way to start it then. Probably something to learn from. Especially if you're someone that's incredibly pro-AEW and anti-WWE most of the time anyway.

And that's fine, we're all allowed our opinions and bias, but I don't think you can be surprised if some people don't take you seriously or don't want to listen with that initial approach.

So what you’re saying is you only read certain posts of a thread rather than the what people generally do on a forum and read the conversation. Makes sense.

Devon rightly challenged me and I think led to a good discussion about his stances and what that means to people. And it’s the number 1 thing that I respect of him, to use his position to be what he declared himself to be, the voice of the voiceless. 
 

@d-d-d-dAz I don’t think anyone critiqued him going back because of the Vince stuff, especially as the worst of it came to light after. People did because of all the shit he said about WWE between him leaving and his return, which is I think fair, but I wouldn’t have expected anyone to try and quit over the allegations coming to light, no matter how moralistic they are.

[RedRooster]

2 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

@d-d-d-dAz I don’t think anyone critiqued him going back because of the Vince stuff, especially as the worst of it came to light after. People did because of all the shit he said about WWE between him leaving and his return, which is I think fair, but I wouldn’t have expected anyone to try and quit over the allegations coming to light, no matter how moralistic they are.

Don't you ever change your mind based on the experiences you have? There's not necessarily any hypocrisy at all, just a man who feels differently about his former workplace - particularly now that it was essentially Vince-less. For all we know, friends within the company had been selling it well to him for a while, all as he came to realise AEW wasn't quite what he hoped it would be. That doesn't mean AEW was at fault, or even that Punk was. I'm sure you've enjoyed work environments that others have hated in the past, and vice versa. It's purely subjective. 

[Snitsky's back acne]

14 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Don't you ever change your mind based on the experiences you have? 

Absolutely spot on. People grow and change. As whoever it was (HHH?) said 'If you're the same person you were ten years ago then you're doing something wrong'.

It seems to me that Punk is trying to be less of a bitter prick and just enjoy himself these days and that surely must be a good thing?

[Hannibal Scorch]

For those interested in non WWE merch, Pro Wrestling Tees are selling Punk stuff until the 1st March and have 20% off site wide at the moment https://www.prowrestlingtees.com/cmpunk?mc_cid=66bc26da0b&mc_eid=0f443778ba

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

55 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

I don’t think anyone critiqued him going back because of the Vince stuff, especially as the worst of it came to light after. People did because of all the shit he said about WWE between him leaving and his return, which is I think fair,

Everybody says shit about WWE when they leave, and everybody bar Savage either has or will go back. Punk seems to be held to a different standard to everyone else when he is still just a carny wrestler the same as the rest of them. 

[Hannibal Scorch]

Just now, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

Everybody says shit about WWE when they leave, and everybody bar Savage either has or will go back. Punk seems to be held to a different standard to everyone else when he is still just a carny wrestler the same as the rest of them. 

I agree that a lot of wrestlers say shit when they leave, but he didn't just leave WWE, he left Wrestling, and that was mainly put down to how he almost died when he needed surgery and getting fired on his wedding day. That's why people hold him to a different standard than the likes of Keith Lee, Moxley or Leo Rush or indeed any number of the many wrestlers who have left not on the best of terms. At least, that is how I see it.