woke.

[Nick James]

Sorry for popping this in here, I was going to use the Pride thread, but I recall that thread being quite a lovely read through so didn't want to drag the tone down.

I want to ask a question and this place is one of the most level headed and educated of places I frequent and feel I could get a genuine answer to whether I have said something wrong or not.

This morning, while browsing through Twitter, I saw no end of abuse being lobbied at Eddie Izzard, mainly off the back of Labour MP Rosie Duffields comments. I wrote a tweet, mainly just putting some thoughts out there, that was meaning that Eddie for years has worn women's clothing and it wasn't an issue, yet as soon as she has adapted her pronouns, the transphobes and bigots get out their pitchforks. 

I didn't tag anyone, hashtag anything, it was merely my own musings with Eddie running for MP in Sheffield, which is local to me. Little did I know just how today was going to go. 

For all of the likes and retweets my tweet has gotten, the amount of vitriol and abuse I have had today has really taken me aback and knocked me for six quite frankly. Hateful inbox messages, comments and quote tweets etc. 

Most of the comments (95%ish) are from men with no profile pictures, telling me how women are being out at risk by Eddie 'claiming' to be a woman and using women's toilets etc. Then I've had really angry women saying how sexist I am and men shouldn't be telling women what they should or shouldn't be fearing, where they can feel safe etc.

My question is, what exactly did I say wrong? This isn't a 'what did I say wrong because everything I said is right', scenario, but more of a genuine, please educate me in what I said wrong.

I think people may have read much more into the tweet than I intended (more a jibe at the right wing males who are so thin skinned they get offended by thinking people are offended), and have taken it as an attack on women. Which wasn't the intention at all. I'm a terrible overthinker and it's gotten to the point today that I can't relax as it's going through my head constantly.

Apologies for the long, heavy post on Monday night. I'm a straight, white male in my 30's, this certainly isn't my wheelhouse and is more than likely something I shouldn't be making any commentary at all on, which I shall be keeping away from in the future.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Nick James

[Guest]

You didn't say anything wrong. Sadly there's been a toxic anti-trans campaign on social media, dressing itself as "protecting women," for a while now and you're just the latest to be pounced on and your mentions used as a platform for their disingenuous concern trolling. Ignore it and carry on.

Oh, and it looks largely astroturfed because it is. Fake it till you make it is the MO of any hatemonger who'd have you believe they represent all good normal folk, when it's quite clear they're anything but.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Uncle Zeb

[wordsfromlee]

[DavidB6937]

You spoke sense on Twitter. That was probably where you went wrong.

[Arch Stanton]

You've said absolutely nothing wrong, as far as I can see, the vitriolic responses you've had surely just prove the point you were making. Twitter is a really horrible cesspit, don't even bother raising your head over the parapet on there.

[Thunderplex]

You said nothing wrong for normal people.  Sadly, it was also read by lesser mortals who happily hide behind their keyboards spitting vitriol and hatred due to the fact they will never find true happiness indies their insipid little lives.

[Chest Rockwell]

What you did wrong was use Twitter to broach a serious subject. It's simply not designed for productive, good faith discussion. Mute the responses and don't look at any of them. It'll do no good for your mental wellbeing if you are a worrier and over thinker.

And I wouldn't worry about people 'reading too much into what you've written'. Most people just hear what they want to hear or take any tangentially related opportunity to talk about whatever axe they've got to grind and no amount of tweaking the nuances of your statement is going to change what their response would have been.

[Nick James]

Thanks folks, really appreciate it. Been driving me nuts most of the day so pleased to hear there's nothing that I've done other than use Twitter. 

[Keith Houchen]

Essentially, there are a lot of women fed up with bearded men telling them they’re doing feminism wrong. They no doubt saw you tweet, however well intended, and saw it as yet another example of it. 
 

Loads of women have no issue with Izzard wearing their own clothes “They aren’t women’s clothes, they’re MY clothes” as Izzard famously said. What their issue is because Izzard is currently in “Girl mode”, Izzard should have access to a protected characteristics spaces until/if they revert back to “Boy mode”. Some women won’t accept a biological man as a woman just because they say they are one and get fucked off at being called a bigot. And of course, some people are just hateful cunts. 
 

Essentially, don’t tell women how to do feminism. 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Essentially, there are a lot of women fed up with bearded men telling them they’re doing feminism wrong. They no doubt saw you tweet, however well intended, and saw it as yet another example of it.

Essentially, don’t tell women how to do feminism. 

 

1 hour ago, Nick James said:

Most of the comments (95%ish) are from men with no profile pictures

 

[Keith Houchen]

Nicks figure of 95% isn’t accurate.  You can check the replies for yourself if you’re so inclined.  Funnily enough, this appeared on my girlfriend’s timeline because a lot of her mutuals had commented, they are women. 
 

As an aside, this is male dominated forum, so you’re going to be asking men’s opinions about what the issue was. Read the replies, of which most aren’t hateful, more exasperated, and take it on board. 

[SuperBacon]

Speaking of "woke" I thought this was a wonderful response to it as we all know when most people use the term, they are just using it in place of what they really want to say.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

As an aside, this is male dominated forum, so you’re going to be asking men’s opinions about what the issue was. Read the replies, of which most aren’t hateful, more exasperated, and take it on board. 

So far you've told us what the issue was and how many other comments are worth taking on board, so I guess some male opinions must be more valid than others.

[Monkee]

@Nick Jamesthere was absolutely nothing wrong with what you said. I saw that Eddie was trending earlier today and [stupidly] clicked the link. The amount of pure bile was sickening. And it was from all angles - men, women, left wing, right wing, old, young. The language was horrendous and I didn’t even read that much.

It reminded me of what I read last week after watching Jordan Grey on Friday Night Live.

Social media makes me sick sometimes.

[Keith Houchen]

1 hour ago, Uncle Zeb said:

So far you've told us what the issue was and how many other comments are worth taking on board, so I guess some male opinions must be more valid than others.

Female opinions matter infinitely more than male ones, unless they’re the wrong kind of feminist ones, obviously. 
 

This is feminism discourse online in a nutshell. Well meaning man makes well meaning but problematic post. Women call him out on it, well meaning man asks other men what he did wrong, they say nothing, and so it continues. And then men disagreeing are accused of white knighting. 
 

Nick asked what he did wrong, all I did was say why some women see what he did as wrong. That’s all, not saying anything about the opinions, just answering his question. And I have no surprise that other men don’t like that.