Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) I guess the difficulty I have with the TERF perspective is that I would like to be an ally, and it seems their reasoning would force me to choose between being a good ally to women, or a good ally to trans people. Insofar as any opinion I have as a cis male has any bearing on the situation, what I would like to see is a solution that helps both, and nothing seems to be forthcoming from that particular group, other than dismissing the suffering trans people go through. Edited October 25, 2022 by Carbomb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted October 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 25, 2022 I worked in a shared office block for a spell and the site staff were trying to find the woman who was regularly shitting in the sink. Apparently it was a very regular occurrence, as was people nipping to the vacant 6th floor to fuck overlooking Birmingham. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted October 25, 2022 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 25, 2022 At every office I've worked there have been instances where emails are sent reminding staff how to treat the women's toilets and the women I've worked with mention shit on the floor, walls etc. Men's toilets, to the sheer surprise of everyone, tend to be cleaner from my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Well, I think the lesson we can all learn from this thread is that men & former men > women. I think we all knew that anyway, though. After all, it is a mans world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted October 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 25, 2022 A trans friend of mine died by suicide a few years ago following being on the receiving end of more than one hate crime and his family rejecting him after he came out. It made me think about just how easy I had it, to not only be unaffected directly by trans issues, but also how fucking easy it was for me to say that the whole conversation had nothing to do with me. Trans men are, incidentally, almost never part of this whole fucking conversation, despite being just as rejected from changing rooms and toilets, because 'you can always tell' from one, while potentially being actively in danger in the other. But they're less easy to make people feel icked out about, or write off as fetishists, so they tend to be just ignored or treated as poor victims who got brainwashed into all this gender nonsense, when in previous generations they would have been perfectly happy being butch lesbians or something. I understand some people's fear at the heart of it, but it's being whipped up further by bigotry, to the point where I've seen arseholes insisting on referring to trans people as 'it'. Like a lot of the talk doing the rounds, it's dehumanising bullshit, designed to be cruel, and masquerading as concern. And there's a LOT of this kind of stuff out there. As with so many things, on individual person-to-person levels, there's a lot more reasoned approaches and seeing people as actual human beings. But there are also bad faith players doing things like taking pictures of an MP candidate coming out of a toilet to try to demonise her, and using past art or publicity pictures to try to write her off as an exhibitionist fetishist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Chris B said: I understand some people's fear at the heart of it, but it's being whipped up further by bigotry, to the point where I've seen arseholes insisting on referring to trans people as 'it'. Like a lot of the talk doing the rounds, it's dehumanising bullshit, designed to be cruel, and masquerading as concern. And there's a LOT of this kind of stuff out there. Today I saw someone with KPSS (keep prisons single sex) in their twitter bio saying “We need a solution to the trans issue, a final solution”. That’s surely prosecutable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted October 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Today I saw someone with KPSS (keep prisons single sex) in their twitter bio saying “We need a solution to the trans issue, a final solution”. That’s surely prosecutable Stop telling women how to be feminists, Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Chris B said: Stop telling women how to be feminists, Keith. Thanks, another bearded man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted October 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 hours ago, SuperBacon said: I always find it funny (well, not funny) that the "trans debate" almost always surrounds trans womens issues and very rarely trans mens issues. Was going to make this very point earlier. Immensely frustrating and distressing, in many ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 32 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: Was going to make this very point earlier. Immensely frustrating and distressing, in many ways. Given how I feel I’m not making my points clear lately I want to stress the following, and indeed the previous, points aren’t necessarily my views, more trying to understand from another persons/woman’s perspective.  I think it’s a combination of a few things. The first being there are more trans women than there are trans men. That’s according to all the stats I could find and if they’re wrong, my apologies. The second, and more pertinent, is males hold the power in a patriarchal society. Women’s spaces exist because of male violence. Men are of course victims of that violence too, but the majority of rape crisis centres in the UK are ran by women for women, and a lot of service users don’t want male bodied people in there because of the triggering of their own assault. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, I’m saying that’s from some (not all) service users of a rape crisis centre relayed to me from my ex who runs one. And because the absolute worst voices are the loudest, the TRA voices that get the amplification are the “Choke on my girldick, terf” types, so people wrongly think they don’t only speak for themselves and see those as the type of people wanting to “Invade” a woman’s space.  The power dynamic of a “Man” in a woman’s space is not the same as a “Woman” in a man’s space so as such, it isn’t seen as a “Breach” of a safe space.  And of course, the biggest reason is hatred. I’m reminded of something bobbins said about homophobia. He said how men are often homophobic because it’s an affront to masculinity, it’s as if a man not being hyper masculine lowers the level for all masculinity. I wonder if there are some men who think that about trans women? Almost like they hate them because they’re letting the team down. Does that make sense? One good thing is the majority of women don’t care about how you were born and raised, it’s about you. I have optimism in youth and I genuinely believe we are moving towards a more embracing, kind, and respectful society. Stupid old cunts like me and my generation will be dead soon and I hope and believe that a lot of that deep seated bigotry and hatred will die with us.  Basically, men, male violence, and patriarchy are the problem in my opinion, not trans people trying to live their lives in the truest way they can. And again, I want to apologise for not making points clear and what I think, despite it being irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted February 10, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 10, 2023 Not sure where else to put this but here's Jonathan Pie making an even bigger fanny of himself than usual. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 As I replied on Twitter, I hate Sam Smiths music but I’m absolutely loving all the arseholes getting offended by them for what seems to be merely having the time of their lives!  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted February 10, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 10, 2023 I don't understand the appeal of this Jonathan Pie guy at all. Wasn't he supposed to be a character of some kind, a satire of ranting political commentators? Or is that what he *actually* is? Either way he's always been amazingly shit and unfunny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Just now, Devon Malcolm said: I don't understand the appeal of this Jonathan Pie guy at all. Wasn't he supposed to be a character of some kind, a satire of ranting political commentators? Or is that what he *actually* is? Either way he's always been amazingly shit and unfunny. Yeah he started out as a “Character” but once it started getting a bit of traction, it became his full time shtick. It’s like when Green Day stopped writing songs about wanking and called George Bush smelly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) I just don't understand, and never will, why anyone would give a shit about something like that? What a waste of energy. Oh and Sam Smith will always be in my good books for that Disclosure banger they was on. Love it. Edited February 10, 2023 by SuperBacon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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