DavidB6937 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 6 hours ago, Mr_Danger said: For those well intended midgenderers, I wouldn’t beat yourselves up too much it’s an old language and our old WWE Raw watching for 25 years plus addled brains might take a bit longer to grasp new terms better. I was talking to someone at work about this the other day. They're in their early 20s and it's really interesting hearing the perspective of a younger person about sexuality and gender vs my 40 year old experiences. I'm certainly not closed off and have no issues with it all but its definitely difficult to shift towards something like a they/them. I'll always try where I cam but it is easy to forget too. And yeah there's some stuff I don't particularly understand but it's all a learning experience. The world is definitely changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Danger Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 25 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Well, maybe not the death threats and rape threats. Well I’d hope that goes without saying but in case it doesn’t I meant the general flak she gets. Obviously the weirdos are always going to find a reason to threaten to rape and murder women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted February 11, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 11, 2023 27 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Well, maybe not the death threats and rape threats. It's a good thing that LGBTQIA+ people don't find themselves on the receiving end of similar threats so she can claim the moral high ground in that regard. Oh, wait... I totally agree that such behaviour is reprehensible, but it's not as if JKR & her followers are the only people on the end of it . Both ends of the spectrum can be as bad as each other when you get out to the extrêmes, and unfortunately they're the ones that will always get the most media attention because the loudest voices are always the ones that get heard. I don't agree with her because she's wrong, trans women are women and trans men are men. Gender isn't binary. I've seen a lot of the memes spoiling the game, and it's descended into some horrible arguments. I'm likely not going to play it myself, if that's what you enjoy, then go for your life, but try and understand when people get upset with your choice. @DavidB6937I get where you're coming from, there is a LOT to learn as society changes, but I remember seeing the rather appropriate explanation "if you can call a wrestler by their new gimmick name when they change companies, you can call your friend by their new name/pronoun when they come out." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said: t's a good thing that LGBTQIA+ people don't find themselves on the receiving end of similar threats so she can claim the moral high ground in that regard. Oh, wait... does she claim the moral high ground in that regard or has she made death and rape threats? What a bizarre thing to say. 4 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said: Gender isn't binary It certainly isn’t, but sex is. And that’s the issue for a lot of people. You can change gender but you can’t change biological sex. What you can change though is your “Legal sex” and I think it’s fair to say, transphobes and bigots will always shift goalposts in the guise of “Keeping women safe” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ReturnOfTheMack Posted February 11, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 11, 2023 Sex isn't binary either, there are multiple variations of intersex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted February 11, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, jazzygeofferz said: get where you're coming from, there is a LOT to learn as society changes, but I remember seeing the rather appropriate explanation "if you can call a wrestler by their new gimmick name when they change companies, you can call your friend by their new name/pronoun when they come out I disagree a bit, I've spent 35 years using and hearing he/she/him/her used day in and day out in work, social life, TV , hell everywhere. That's so ingrained I'll use it instinctively without really thinking. That's not me being a cunt, that's me needing to unlearn a response and relearn, that takes time. I haven't had the same ingrained thinking for indy wrestling. Edit: I'll generally use a gender neutral now, they/ them. But that doesn't mean he or her won't slip out when I'm on autopilot. I'm not being a dick in just not actively thinking about every word and relying on reflex, which I'm still relearning. Edited February 11, 2023 by Tommy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 21 minutes ago, ReturnOfTheMack said: Sex isn't binary either, there are multiple variations of intersex. Indeed, and those different variations are for the most part exclusive to male or female bodies. People with DSDs aren’t some third sex, they’re male or female with, for want of a better word, gene mutations or a non standard developmental. But the specific DSD a person has is exclusive to their biological sex. For instance, a female body can’t develop Klinerfelter syndrome or a male body can’t develop MRKH syndrome. That’s why with surgery and treatment, some of those conditions can be removed or managed, but even then they haven’t changed sex. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ReturnOfTheMack Posted February 11, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 11, 2023 I never claimed they were a third sex, just that they show its not binary. http://www.scientistafoundation.com/lifestyle-blog/why-sex-isnt-binary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, ReturnOfTheMack said: I never claimed they were a third sex, just that they show its not binary. http://www.scientistafoundation.com/lifestyle-blog/why-sex-isnt-binary Sorry, I’m a bit confused and apologies if it appears I’m being semantically picky. Binary means two, so either you’re saying there is a third sex or that it is binary. Sure, there are developmental differences within those two, but they’re still two, as you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ReturnOfTheMack Posted February 11, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 11, 2023 If you accept intersex then you have to accept some don't fit into the either/or. So while it's not a third sex it's also not a binary one or the other. I'm not great at explaining with the written word, please read the link and feel free to agree or disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ReturnOfTheMack said: If you accept intersex then you have to accept some don't fit into the either/or. So while it's not a third sex it's also not a binary one or the other. I'm not great at explaining with the written word, please read the link and feel free to agree or disagree. That isn’t the case. DSDs are of course very real but those affected are still male or female. You and I have different genetics and no doubt some developmental differences given my overall shite health through life but we are still both biological males. My partner, for instance, has PCOS (Polycystic Ovary Syndrome). Some of the symptoms of this can include hyperandrogenism, which can manifest as male pattern hair growth around the body such as the chest, back and face, acne and lowering of the voice. She is still biologically female. Some people are advocating that PCOS should be categorised as a DSD but women with PCOS are generally against this. Yeah I read that article, he’s essentially saying sex IS binary but there are genetic differences/anomalies within the two groups. And I agree with that. EDIT - I think that in time, science and technology will reach a stage where sex can be changed but we aren’t there yet. Edited February 11, 2023 by Keith Houchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted February 11, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 11, 2023 I assume it's a technical point, binary is a 1 or 0 true or false statement. If there is a spectrum or 3rd option it's not binary in the true sense. The question, as I understand it, is is it a 3rd option or is it a spectrum of multiple, potentially infinite, options. That's where I get lost, but also where I don't care because I just go with whatever other people want and I judge them as a person not a he or she. It's easy because most people are cunts anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ReturnOfTheMack Posted February 11, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) But he literally isn't saying that though. So how do you define sex? To be clear, I'm not being accusatory or anything. Edit - to Keith. Edited February 11, 2023 by ReturnOfTheMack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted February 11, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Keith Houchen said: 3 hours ago, jazzygeofferz said: does she claim the moral high ground in that regard or has she made death and rape threats? What a bizarre thing to say. My phone does terrible quotes. I was saying that it could be seen as hypocritical to lambast people for making the threats against JK Rowling when members of the LGBTQ+ community have been receiving threats like that for years. Not from JKR herself, but more than likely from people who espouse her believes and the gammonati in general. I didn't phrase it well. I never do. 2 hours ago, ReturnOfTheMack said: Sex isn't binary either, there are multiple variations of intersex. This is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted February 11, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted February 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said: was saying that it could be seen as hypocritical to lambast people for making the threats against JK Rowling when members of the LGBTQ+ community have been receiving threats like that for years. That's true for most things though, someone on here the other day posted a joke about killing a tory MP but I'm sure many, myself included, would be up in arms if it was the other way around. That's no more acceptable than posting about killing a left wing MP, regardless of my political stance but ultimately that doesn't make me favour one or the other more. I guess for me as soon as one side lowers itself to the other it's a sad state of affairs. Doesn't make the fight less worth while, just makes some people fighting it horrible or stupid. Perhaps that's what's needed, I can't say I can only sit outside the tent and peep in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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