woke.

[SuperBacon]

8 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Probably for another thread on another day but I would fucking love to live without mine. Imagine the joy you'd from not having the little cunt pinging and vibrating all day long. (No context UKFF). I can't even leave mine at home without panicking that either I've lost it or my family are all now dead and can't phone me to tell me. Wonder if anyone doesn't have one?

For reasons only known to me not long ago I ended up with 3 smart phones.

1x was my original personal one, but it ended up absolutely fucked, but still was the number that most people had, and I hadn't bothered to tell all people/move the sim over yet.

1x was my newer personal one and 1x was my work phone.

As someone that checks they still have their key in their bag 475 times a day, I'm surprised this scenario didn't kill me.

[BomberPat]

18 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

Yeah really, being an ally should be the default setting for every person. It should be the norm rather than a label. 

I know what you mean. It always comes across creepy and disingenuous to me and is often used by phoney blokes who are absolutely full of shit. My wife has told me that, based on my views and things I've said, that I'm a feminist but I would never dare label myself one. Like being an "ally" to me my views are, in my opinion, what should be the norm for everyone. 

Jon Snow was asked in an interview years ago if he considered himself a feminist, and he answered that it's not his decision to make. That's where I'm at for now, for the reasons I talked about above, in terms of whether I'm an ally, a safe person to turn to, or anything else, it's not me who gets to make that judgement, it's others who have to make it about me. I obviously hope that people see me in those terms, but I think a lot of men are quick to adopt the language of allyship not for any untoward reasons, but because they want to be part of the conversation, when often it's a lot more helpful to use whatever voice or platform you have to make space for other people to speak rather than drowning them out with yet another well-meaning bloke talking over everyone.

9 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Probably for another thread on another day but I would fucking love to live without mine. Imagine the joy you'd from not having the little cunt pinging and vibrating all day long. (No context UKFF). I can't even leave mine at home without panicking that either I've lost it or my family are all now dead and can't phone me to tell me. Wonder if anyone doesn't have one?

My partner's dad's best mate doesn't have a phone at all, any time we've needed to get in touch with him it's by email, and other people leave messages with him at his local. 

I'm horribly addicted to mine, and to social media in general, and sometimes envy that way of living, but am always stuck in the headspace that something awful might happen and people would need to contact me, even though no one has phoned me without prior arrangement for years, and only about three people even have my number, and if something that awful did happen, chances are I wouldn't be able to do anything about it anywway.

[Mr_Danger]

A few of the old boys in work have those really basic burner phones encased in titanium so they never get broken. They’re also the only one with cash on hand whenever there’s a collection for a colleague. 
 

My phone packed in not long ago and if it wasn’t for the fact I need my phone form banking, reward points, ripping the old guys with burner phones in the workplace WhatsApp group, gym entry and video calling the kids I would have happily downgraded to a flip phone. 

[Carbomb]

See, I have to admit that, whilst "ally" is definitely something for others to decide about me, I don't see the same for the term "feminist", because that's about a specific declaration of principles - the recognition of the equal social, political, and economic rights of women (and other sexes) to men is something I've always believed in, and I was given to understand that those comprise feminist beliefs, regardless of any action one takes. I personally would say I'm a feminist in the same sense I would call myself a socialist, an anti-monarchist, and being pro LGBTQ+ rights.

[CharlesTuckerTheThird]

14 hours ago, Loki said:

I hate this.  JK Rowling has had no involvement in this game.  Conversely hundreds of people have worked for years on it, and their ongoing livelihood depends on the success of the game.  I don't see how boycotting this game in any way makes you a "trans ally", she'll still be a millionaire if the game sells not a single copy but the studio and employees would all be out on their arse.  You're not helping trans rights or punishing her in any way.

I also think "trans ally" is a bit patronising.  It's performative nonsense, it's a t-shirt slogan to make you feel good.  It's not hard to simply not be a bigot, or at the very least not go out of your way to make some people's life worse.  You don't need to get a medal and a handshake for that, it's common decency.

Edit: not having a go at you particularly Trip, I should declare a vested interest as I work in that industry and my colleagues are having a hard enough time without people boycotting games for reasons that have nothing to do with the games.  And I support trans rights as I supported gay rights and women's rights but don't think it needs to be a performative act.

That's fair enough and respect your point of view, but JKR is still making royalties from Hogwarts Legacy, and considering what JKR is using her money for these days, I think buying the game might do more long-term harm than good. As for the term "ally", I somewhat agree. Personally I prefer the term "not a cunt."

[Nexus]

I'm also not being funny but when trans people have said "I would prefer it if you don't play this game," and the people saying "ah but she's not that involved" probably aren't trans people, I know which side I'm going to listen to. 

 

Doing the bare minimum isn't enough, but it is at least something. Staying in the centre and saying "ah well it'll be fine" is absolute bullshit, and I think you know it in your heart as well. Actively supporting JKR by buying a Harry Potter branded product is not staying in the centre - it's saying to trans people "yeah your lives matter to me but also wizard game goes pew pew and that's more fun" 

[Devon Malcolm]

I told myself over and over in the last 24 hours or so not to respond to this latest discussion. Perhaps because I'm too close to the subject, even more so with the fallout from the Cass Report over the last day or so, to be able to respond to all this like a rational, non-ranting human being. Additionally because I have a big mouth and I'm not good at keeping it shut and I'm sure I'll regret this post as soon as it's done. But fuck it. I'm so FUCKING tired of this shit.

I'm not going to be guilt-tripped into not asking people not to buy a Harry Potter video game because of the repercussions for those who worked on it. And I *will* ask people not to buy it, as I have done on Twitter. I will also say that if you are an adult with your own income choosing to buy that game and it's not for your kids or a gift for a child relative of yours then I am going to tell you that you have no right to call yourself a trans ally or whatever term you're choosing to use, but more on that later. Because you're not.

This notion that 'well, Rowling's rich anyway so what difference does it make' is so staggeringly myopic that I can't believe for one second that anyone would truly believe that. Rowling's actually a billionaire, I believe, and maybe the money or royalties that she will obviously get from the game will be a drop in the ocean to her. But do we just give up not putting any more in her pocket just because it 'won't make a difference'? Of course we don't. Because that money could be used to support a game that isn't based on a franchise created by the most prominent fascist transphobes on the planet. (A game, presumably, that will have been worked on by other human beings who need to pay the bills. So by all means tell us that we should buy the new Potter game because of the people who worked on it, but don't conveniently forget that gamers will probably put their money in another corner of the market and help those programmers instead.)

Rowling completely dedicates her social media platforms to the demonisation of trans people, particularly trans women. Because let's face it, this mob don't give a shit about trans men and they never enter the discussion. Because they can't continue the paper-thin defence of it all being about 'feminism' when challenged on it. Her voice has undeniably led to unmeasurable amounts of abuse being levelled at trans people. A generation of people who grew up on her books, idolising her, now seeing one of the most important people in their formative years spending thousands of hours of her spare time actively trying to make the lives of people for whom life is usually difficult enough even more miserable. A lot of them will see through it and pull away from her. But many others won't.

OK, it may not make a difference to her to not buy the game. But we have to do something! This rhetoric smacks of more or less saying, "Well, boycotts damage people down the food chain and this woman's rich as fuck anyway so let's just crack on as we were, eh?" Absolute fucking horseshit, buck-passing centrism. There's been a discussion about performative allyship and minority support in this thread and there's nothing that falls into that category more than saying that you support trans rights but then saying that it's alright to put more money in JK Rowling's pocket because what difference does it ACTUALLY make anyway. Fuck's sake.

The fucking GIDS service just shut down. It's gone. My 17yo has had to join a network of inter-supporting trans teenagers to assist him with his transitioning because of this. He's lucky that he has that network of friends that he trusts (and so do I) but many do not. These events will be one of the most damaging things to happen to trans kids this country has ever seen. I'm too close to all this and too emotive about it, sure. But the state of play is fucking terrible and I'm so scared about what's going to happen to kids now. If you support trans kids, support them. Don't support them with caveats and 'yeah, but alsos'.

And it's absolutely fine to call yourself an ally btw! Are there people out there who call themselves such but aren't really or are just saying that for clout? Sure! Some of them are on this board. It's no good calling yourself such a thing and then showing absolutely no hint of actual, meaningful support. It does matter, though. It means the world to my 17yo when I tell him that somebody I know is a supporter or an ally. Keep calling it yourself because those who aren't on the LGBTQ+ spectrum saying "Yeah it's a bit fishy to me this, when someone calls themselves that!"? Their opinions on this don't matter AT ALL. It doesn't affect them. They don't know how much it means. 

I'm going to hit Submit Reply now and sink into my well of regret. Again. GREAT.

[SuperBacon]

Appreciate all that @Devon Malcolm thanks for taking the time to give that personal insight, and lots of love to your son.

[Mr_Danger]

Yeah, it’s articulate, heartfelt and well informed. It certainly makes my views on using terminology look petty and foolish. It also explains why I couldn’t find your review of the latest Fantastic Beasts on Letterboxd!

[Devon Malcolm]

1 minute ago, Mr_Danger said:

Yeah, it’s articulate, heartfelt and well informed. It certainly makes my views on using terminology look petty and foolish.

Not at all. I really do understand your concerns and those of anyone else who may feel this way because you're right. There are performative grifters out there and we should be concerned about them as they do set everything back as well as profiting off the back of non-support. I just think we shouldn't use them as a blanket reason to question anyone who calls themselves a supporter of minority rights and lives or an ally. You're one of the really good ones.

[Mr_Danger]

Yeah it’s a point I considered when I first started seeing straight blokes using He/Him pronouns in their Twitter bio’s but then I saw top red and Flanno regular Rahul Kohli explain that he does it as a show of support and to normalize it and I did indeed think of the children. The good thing about being a shallow flippant centrist dad is that you’re always open to new views and outlooks.

[organizedkaos]

It's a bit the problem with social media again isn't it.  Everything is a statement, either people actively making one or others assuming everyone is doing something to present a character. So you get people making jokes about people who have their pronouns in their bios or suggesting it's OTT to do such a thing and thus it becomes all about some perceived grand gesture. Dickheads can then weaponise this to suggest that people are being disingenuous or trying to hard to something that is anything other than... this is quite useful and normalising it is good.

I work for a multinational corporation. You enter your pronouns into the work database just like you enter your date of birth. Most people have then in their  e-mail signature along with their name and other basic human information - if it's not there it can be looked up in the employee database. Cos it's useful and avoids grief. Normal thing to do in the workplace, not woke gone mad or bullshit like that.

[Dead Mike]

33 minutes ago, organizedkaos said:

 

I work for a multinational corporation. You enter your pronouns into the work database just like you enter your date of birth. Most people have then in their  e-mail signature along with their name and other basic human information - if it's not there it can be looked up in the employee database. Cos it's useful and avoids grief. Normal thing to do in the workplace, not woke gone mad or bullshit like that.

Same. Nobody blinks an eye and it's just a given. I spoke to someone called 'Rim' the other day, I would've assumed it was a bloke without it (unfortunate name though). 

Social media is the devil and the way any issue is quickly weaponised and taken to extreme points for content & clicks is fucking exhausting. I wish I was less guilty of delving into it through hate scrolling & curiosity. I'm now aware of people and 'hot takes' I would've previously been blissfully ignorant of. 

[organizedkaos]

21 minutes ago, Dead Mike said:

I spoke to someone called 'Rim' the other day

 

I assume they made some excellent wrestling compilation tapes?

[gmoney]

They're really good mates with Branquey I think?