woke.

[MungoChutney]

I hope you don't regret making that post @Devon Malcolm because I think it's one of the best things I've ever read on any social/internet platform.  Before reading it I think I struggled to see the problem with the 'JK is rich anyway, think of the developers' line as well as the impact taking that view can have. 

 

I hope you continue to contribute to the conversation with such honesty, although I appreciate it takes a lot to be willing to open up on such a deeply personal subject.  

[DavidB6937]

Firstly, thank you to @Devon Malcolmfor that post. It's one of those things I'm absolutely aware of but have no personal link or knowledge of, so that insight is invaluable to people like me. And as much as many of us try our best and try to understand, it's those more informed and experienced perspectives we should all be learning from. Same with race or gender discussions for example. There's only so much you can really understand from a white privilege male perspective despite believing you're open minded and supportive. 

Secondly - and this is where the tricky personal stuff comes in - the Harry Potter series has played a huge part in my life. I've made many friends because of it. It has brought me closer to my mum and her favourite place in the world is the studio tour. We've always made it our thing to go there every year. And our eldest daughter loves it too.

So thinking about letting it all go is something I really struggle with. I know a lot of people feel the same. Probably in the same way about walking away from WWE when you've watched it for nearly your entire life. It's tough. I guess I have been justifying it by thinking well I'm not paying for stuff because I like JK or anything like that. But having read stuff on here, I get why that's incredibly problematic while still claiming to want to be an ally. So it's definitely something I need to try and reevaluate somehow.

[Devon Malcolm]

24 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Secondly - and this is where the tricky personal stuff comes in - the Harry Potter series has played a huge part in my life. I've made many friends because of it. It has brought me closer to my mum and her favourite place in the world is the studio tour. We've always made it our thing to go there every year. And our eldest daughter loves it too.

So thinking about letting it all go is something I really struggle with. I know a lot of people feel the same. Probably in the same way about walking away from WWE when you've watched it for nearly your entire life. It's tough. I guess I have been justifying it by thinking well I'm not paying for stuff because I like JK or anything like that. But having read stuff on here, I get why that's incredibly problematic while still claiming to want to be an ally. So it's definitely something I need to try and reevaluate somehow.

I competely acknowledge this isn't easy. This is a discussion that's been had in both on and off topic on this board in numerous topics and in a lot of cases there are no easy answers, and you can't boycott/stop consuming everything! There are all kinds of reasons why you may be prevented from doing that. Case in point - my 15yo daughter is largely non-communicative autistic and she loves a McDonalds. I don't want to be putting money in their pockets right now but she won't understand the reasons why if I explained them to her. She has her routines and things she needs/likes. There's nothing I can do about that.

In your case, I'm assuming you're not tramping round the web and your offline life shouting about being a trans ally, and as you point out this is a topic that hasn't really intersected with your day-to-day life. I'm not expecting you to suddenly boot all your Potter merch and so on into touch just because I made a post on an off-topic board, and I wouldn't ask you to do that. But you're aware and understanding and thinking about the topic in an open-minded and accepting way. Progress of any kind is good and important, because instant change is quite often difficult to achieve in many circumstances.

[Nexus]

This came across on my Twitter today and I think it's a good summary of why anyone who says the word "woke" in a derogatory manner is a dickhead:

 

 

 

[Carbomb]

One of the things that low-key boils my piss is how that fucker Brandreth has managed to rehab his image from Tory MP to (still Tory) jolly, jumper-wearing uncle. Fucking snake. Prototype Boris Johnson.

Edited April 11 by Carbomb

[SuperBacon]

Cat Deeley is back on UK TV? Hallelujah!!!

[Devon Malcolm]

7 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

One of the things that low-key boils my piss is how that fucker Brandreth has managed to rehab his image from Tory MP to (still Tory) jolly, jumper-wearing uncle. Fucking snake. Prototype Boris Johnson.

See also Michael Portillo. Train nonce (but not in a good way, like @Fatty Facesitter)

[Chris B]

1 hour ago, Carbomb said:

One of the things that low-key boils my piss is how that fucker Brandreth has managed to rehab his image from Tory MP to (still Tory) jolly, jumper-wearing uncle. Fucking snake. Prototype Boris Johnson.

I was horrified when I realised he wrote the Wide Awake Club joke books. It was like he'd travelled back in time since I'd become aware of him, and infected my childhood with Brandrethness.

[Carbomb]

1 hour ago, Devon Malcolm said:

See also Michael Portillo. Train nonce (but not in a good way, like @Fatty Facesitter)

Something I often heard over the years was that, politically, Portillo is the misfit of his family - apparently the rest of them are rampant socialists.

Also, it seems he gets very annoyed if you pronounce his surname in the original Spanish way his parents did ("por-tee-yo").

[IANdrewDiceClay]

On 4/10/2024 at 1:58 PM, Devon Malcolm said:

I told myself over and over in the last 24 hours or so not to respond to this latest discussion. Perhaps because I'm too close to the subject, even more so with the fallout from the Cass Report over the last day or so, to be able to respond to all this like a rational, non-ranting human being. Additionally because I have a big mouth and I'm not good at keeping it shut and I'm sure I'll regret this post as soon as it's done. But fuck it. I'm so FUCKING tired of this shit.

I'm not going to be guilt-tripped into not asking people not to buy a Harry Potter video game because of the repercussions for those who worked on it. And I *will* ask people not to buy it, as I have done on Twitter. I will also say that if you are an adult with your own income choosing to buy that game and it's not for your kids or a gift for a child relative of yours then I am going to tell you that you have no right to call yourself a trans ally or whatever term you're choosing to use, but more on that later. Because you're not.

This notion that 'well, Rowling's rich anyway so what difference does it make' is so staggeringly myopic that I can't believe for one second that anyone would truly believe that. Rowling's actually a billionaire, I believe, and maybe the money or royalties that she will obviously get from the game will be a drop in the ocean to her. But do we just give up not putting any more in her pocket just because it 'won't make a difference'? Of course we don't. Because that money could be used to support a game that isn't based on a franchise created by the most prominent fascist transphobes on the planet. (A game, presumably, that will have been worked on by other human beings who need to pay the bills. So by all means tell us that we should buy the new Potter game because of the people who worked on it, but don't conveniently forget that gamers will probably put their money in another corner of the market and help those programmers instead.)

Rowling completely dedicates her social media platforms to the demonisation of trans people, particularly trans women. Because let's face it, this mob don't give a shit about trans men and they never enter the discussion. Because they can't continue the paper-thin defence of it all being about 'feminism' when challenged on it. Her voice has undeniably led to unmeasurable amounts of abuse being levelled at trans people. A generation of people who grew up on her books, idolising her, now seeing one of the most important people in their formative years spending thousands of hours of her spare time actively trying to make the lives of people for whom life is usually difficult enough even more miserable. A lot of them will see through it and pull away from her. But many others won't.

OK, it may not make a difference to her to not buy the game. But we have to do something! This rhetoric smacks of more or less saying, "Well, boycotts damage people down the food chain and this woman's rich as fuck anyway so let's just crack on as we were, eh?" Absolute fucking horseshit, buck-passing centrism. There's been a discussion about performative allyship and minority support in this thread and there's nothing that falls into that category more than saying that you support trans rights but then saying that it's alright to put more money in JK Rowling's pocket because what difference does it ACTUALLY make anyway. Fuck's sake.

The fucking GIDS service just shut down. It's gone. My 17yo has had to join a network of inter-supporting trans teenagers to assist him with his transitioning because of this. He's lucky that he has that network of friends that he trusts (and so do I) but many do not. These events will be one of the most damaging things to happen to trans kids this country has ever seen. I'm too close to all this and too emotive about it, sure. But the state of play is fucking terrible and I'm so scared about what's going to happen to kids now. If you support trans kids, support them. Don't support them with caveats and 'yeah, but alsos'.

And it's absolutely fine to call yourself an ally btw! Are there people out there who call themselves such but aren't really or are just saying that for clout? Sure! Some of them are on this board. It's no good calling yourself such a thing and then showing absolutely no hint of actual, meaningful support. It does matter, though. It means the world to my 17yo when I tell him that somebody I know is a supporter or an ally. Keep calling it yourself because those who aren't on the LGBTQ+ spectrum saying "Yeah it's a bit fishy to me this, when someone calls themselves that!"? Their opinions on this don't matter AT ALL. It doesn't affect them. They don't know how much it means. 

I'm going to hit Submit Reply now and sink into my well of regret. Again. GREAT.

I see nothing you should regret here. Its genuinely one of the best posts I've read on this forum.

[no user name]

One thing I've noticed about the anti woke everyone's a snowflake people is they don't seem to put things in context.  Not everything is supposed to be offensive. 

I'll give you an example. A prime time show isn't supposed to be particularly offensive.

Some comedians are.

Now I actually like offensive comedy. But I don't expect to see the offensive material in a prime time show. 

Now when people get offended by something on a prime time show some people will say they are just woke snowflakes etc.

But there are things people may not want to see on a prime time show but then they may watch an offensive comedian and just except that material is there. 

I mean Jimmy Carr once said children who get bullied should stop being weak pussies or something like that. I find Jimmy Carr very funny. But as someone who got bullied in school I didn't like that. But wouldn't complain because everything Jimmy Carr says is offensive. I wouldn't expect to see that on bbc1 at 7 o clock though. And if it was said in a TV programme at that time I think a lot of people would quite rightly be offended and complain 

 

Edited April 11 by no user name

[SuperBacon]

Oh I dunno. The One Show would be vastly improved if someone called Jenas a cunt.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

45 minutes ago, no user name said:

I mean Jimmy Carr once said children who get bullied should stop being weak pussies or something like that.

I say this as someone who thinks Jimmy Carr is a tax dodging unfunny shit, that isnt being anti-woke. Sounds like something you say in your stand up to elicit laughs. I doubt he's sitting there reading about bullied kids pissing himself laughing.

Edited April 11 by IANdrewDiceClay

[no user name]

14 minutes ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

I say this as someone who thinks Jimmy Carr is a tax dodging unfunny shit, that isnt being anti-woke. Sounds like something you saw in your stand up to elicit laughs. I doubt he's sitting there reading about bullied kids pissing himself laughing.

What I mean thought is there is different standards for different times and places. People aren't actually being censored as much as they think. Some people say you can't say anti trans stuff on tv but gb news)/ right-wing propaganda presented as news) say it all the time 

[no user name]

17 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Oh I dunno. The One Show would be vastly improved if someone called Jenas a cunt.

Or gregg Wallace  cunt on masterchef