woke.

[CharlesTuckerTheThird]

On 4/6/2024 at 10:21 AM, Devon Malcolm said:

Rowling has become a really important testing ground for people who claim they're trans allies. There's practically a generation of people out there who grew up on Harry Potter and it's always interesting to me how quiet or defensive many of them will get about Rowling while also tut-tutting about the latest cuts to NHS gender services. Or how many of them still follow her on Twitter even though she never posts about anything else. Priorities.

James Stephanie Sterling nailed it in their video about Hogwarts Legacy: "You can go right ahead and buy the wizard game, but don't you fucking dare call yourself a trans ally if you can't do the bare minimum and not play it."

[Loki]

1 hour ago, CharlesTuckerTheThird said:

James Stephanie Sterling nailed it in their video about Hogwarts Legacy: "You can go right ahead and buy the wizard game, but don't you fucking dare call yourself a trans ally if you can't do the bare minimum and not play it."

I hate this.  JK Rowling has had no involvement in this game.  Conversely hundreds of people have worked for years on it, and their ongoing livelihood depends on the success of the game.  I don't see how boycotting this game in any way makes you a "trans ally", she'll still be a millionaire if the game sells not a single copy but the studio and employees would all be out on their arse.  You're not helping trans rights or punishing her in any way.

I also think "trans ally" is a bit patronising.  It's performative nonsense, it's a t-shirt slogan to make you feel good.  It's not hard to simply not be a bigot, or at the very least not go out of your way to make some people's life worse.  You don't need to get a medal and a handshake for that, it's common decency.

Edit: not having a go at you particularly Trip, I should declare a vested interest as I work in that industry and my colleagues are having a hard enough time without people boycotting games for reasons that have nothing to do with the games.  And I support trans rights as I supported gay rights and women's rights but don't think it needs to be a performative act.

Edited April 9 by Loki

[BomberPat]

I think for a lot of people, having seen protests, activism and campaigning fail go make the meaningful changes they had hoped they would, and living through years of Conservative government actively making life worse and actively holding them in contempt, the only power they feel they have left, and some of the only agency they have left, is in where they choose to spend their money. So things like this, kind of disorganised boycotts, take on a greater degree of importance - and I assuming Rowling still makes some royalties from the game, anyway.

The "ally" thing is something I do find annoying, though. That's not a badge I feel I should be able to wear myself, it's on others to decide whether you are an "ally" or not. Years ago, there were a group of well-meaning women selling a particular branded range of T-shirts, with the intention being that if you were at a show on your own, somebody in that shirt was, essentially, an "ally", a safe person you could go and talk to and hang out with. I ended up in quite a frank exchange of views with one of the people behind it, because I said that my buying one of their shirts isn't enough to mark me out as "one of the good guys". That's not something I should be able to self-identify as.

If I want to be an ally, it's on me to prove that through my actions, not through a T-shirt and a hashtag. Otherwise it can be all a bit "Not All Men".

 

I also think, to your point, that there’s more to being a genuine ally than simply not being a bigot. It's the Ibram X Kendi thing about the difference between simply not being racist, and being actively anti-racist. One is a passive act, the other requires action.

Just not being being transphobic doesn't make you a trans ally, it just means you're not actively making their lives worse.

[Devon Malcolm]

.

Edited April 9 by Devon Malcolm
never mind

[Loki]

21 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

I also think, to your point, that there’s more to being a genuine ally than simply not being a bigot. It's the Ibram X Kendi thing about the difference between simply not being racist, and being actively anti-racist. One is a passive act, the other requires action.

Just not being being transphobic doesn't make you a trans ally, it just means you're not actively making their lives worse.

That's fair.  I guess I'm happy just not being transphobic, if being an "ally" means going after people's livelihoods in the manner of boycotting large-scale endeavours like films and video games.  Life is hard enough.  Joss Whedon is an arsehole but I'll still watch Buffy on streaming services.  Glinner is a bigot but I'll still watch Father Ted.    These things are a product of more than one person's endeavour.

And as you say, just wearing the t-shirt doesn't mean anything if you're an arsehole in other areas of your life.

 

Edited April 9 by Loki
clarity

[SuperBacon]

The thing is being an "ally" means a lot to the people you are supporting, or at least outwardly showing support to.

And that can be small things. Like the work lanyard I have that has the pride colours on one side and the trans flag on the other. If just one LGBTQ or trans person sees that and it makes them feel better, then it's all worthwhile.

I don't wear it because I'm sitting there thinking "Gosh I hope everyone on this bus sees my lanyard me as a super progressive trans ally, ain't I great"

I couldn't give a toss whether someone finds that "patronising", "performative" or "annoying" quite frankly. 

Everything doesn't always have to be that deep, sometimes its just small actions that mean the most.

 

[Loki]

That seems like a personal and generous action that doesn’t negatively effect anyone else @SuperBacon.  And presumably you don’t judge the other people on the bus if they’re NOT wearing appropriate colours.  

That’s a nice thing to do, and a million miles away from calling people out if they don’t boycott something.  I can’t imagine anyone taking issue with this sort of gesture.

Inasmuch as showing support for people is being an ally I’m all for it.  It’s only when it becomes competitive or exclusionary that it makes me uncomfortable.  I probably should have said it can be performative, rather than suggesting it always is.

 

 

 

 

 

[SuperBacon]

19 minutes ago, Loki said:

It’s only when it becomes competitive or exclusionary that it makes me uncomfortable

Is there an example you can give as I'm struggling to understand this bit? Maybe I'm missing something, apologies.

[Loki]

22 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Is there an example you can give as I'm struggling to understand this bit? Maybe I'm missing something, apologies.

The post at the top of this page was the original example.  You’re not an ally if you play Hogwarts Legacy, or you’re implicitly anti-trans if you don’t do x, y or z.  

For a lot of people, it’s just not their fight.  Or they may just not feel comfortable making public declarations or displays.  

Anyway, its very late so I’ll bow out now.

[Mr_Danger]

I wish people could be an ‘ally’ without using the term ‘ally’.  I also think that for as much as I personally enjoy telling people they’re wrong for liking things nobody should actually listen to somebody telling them what to and not to like. I can never really get past people using their electronic devices that were manufactured under slave like conditions to tell people not to consume things on principle but everyone has their lines and you can’t fight every battle.

[SuperBacon]

2 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

I wish people could be an ‘ally’ without using the term ‘ally’.  

Who says they can't be? 

[Mr_Danger]

7 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Who says they can't be? 

People who tell you they’re an ally. It’s a show don’t tell scenario for me. I felt the same when some blokes were calling themselves feminists all the time. Although that had the added ick of feeling like fellas were co-opting something that they perhaps should not have been. None of that goes deeper than me being a grumpy twat doing a bit of old man shouting at clouds though.

[SuperBacon]

9 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

People who tell you they’re an ally.

Oh right. Apologies I misread/misinterpreted it. I thought you meant why can't YOU be an ally without having to use that word, which of course is silly and of course you can be. 

I suppose as with all things, it's about personal preference. 

11 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

I felt the same when some blokes were calling themselves feminists all the time.

How can I hate women, my Mums one.

[LaGoosh]

31 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

I wish people could be an ‘ally’ without using the term ‘ally’.

Yeah really, being an ally should be the default setting for every person. It should be the norm rather than a label. 

13 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

I felt the same when some blokes were calling themselves feminists all the time.

I know what you mean. It always comes across creepy and disingenuous to me and is often used by phoney blokes who are absolutely full of shit. My wife has told me that, based on my views and things I've said, that I'm a feminist but I would never dare label myself one. Like being an "ally" to me my views are, in my opinion, what should be the norm for everyone. 

Personally, I think it's easier just to settle on the labels of "twat" and "not a twat" when it comes to these issues.

[tiger_rick]

42 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

I can never really get past people using their electronic devices that were manufactured under slave like conditions to tell people not to consume things on principle but everyone has their lines and you can’t fight every battle.

Probably for another thread on another day but I would fucking love to live without mine. Imagine the joy you'd from not having the little cunt pinging and vibrating all day long. (No context UKFF). I can't even leave mine at home without panicking that either I've lost it or my family are all now dead and can't phone me to tell me. Wonder if anyone doesn't have one?