World Cup 2022

[PunkStep]

Yes! Or Klopp! Or the ghost of Rinus Michels. We should be aiming higher!

[Arch Stanton]

I'm surprised to see such a staunch defence of Southgate from some people here, the tactics have been turgid and his in-game management atrocious at times. With the pool of talented young players England have at the moment, I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want a better coach to fulfill the squad's potential.

[PunkStep]

My point is who is that (realistic) option that would definitely be better?

[neil]

We need to right the wrongs of 96 and put the REAL coach back in:

 

[stumobir]

9 minutes ago, PunkStep said:

My point is who is that (realistic) option that would definitely be better?

Rodgers? Southgate’s done a very good job at England, any suggestion otherwise is a bit mental but he’s probably taken them as far as he’s going to, better to leave on a relative high of a few good tournaments and hand the team over in a better position than he found them. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by stumobir

[PunkStep]

2 minutes ago, stumobir said:

Rodgers?

A Catholic Northern Irishman, I don't see him taking the England job. 

[Jonny Vegas]

1 hour ago, PunkStep said:

Including the World Cup runners up Croatia, when England beat them in the Euros last summer? The same Croatia that are one more win from a consecutive World Cup final. I don't think England should have been expected to beat them at all, especially as they lost to them at the previous major tournament. But they did. So that's two teams across three tournaments they beat when they were not expected to. That's not bad going. It's not Morocco levels of achievements, but it's a damn sight better than tournaments dating back to the Bobby Robson days at least (at the very least, I think England have been better than they were in 86-90).

Not sure why Scottish hold England in such high regard to win everything. It's quite flattering, but they're clearly not as good as you seem to think they are. And haven't been for decades.

 

So you say England need somebody that can appreciate, nurture and utilise the young talent at their disposal. I give you examples and your response is 'he couldn't leave him out'. Well he could, but he didn't, same with the many other young players he's played during his tenure. Nobody is saying he has unearthed a gem- he has simply appreciated, nurtured and utilised young talent. The very things you believe the England manager needs to do. So, looks like we agree on that- Southgate ticks the box. Good stuff. 

Such as?

I'm not Scottish, I'm English. I can only assume you're based outwith the UK and don't watch the TV or read the media here though.

England are presented as legitimate contenders for every major tournament. The Premier League where all but Bellingham play is routinely presented as the best league in the world.

Sky Sports News are practically in mourning since the loss to France because they realise what a massive missed opportunity it was. 

France were missing 3 of their key players, Mbappe was anonymous all game.

It was same old England that have been at every major tournament in my lifetime.

We lost to a better version of Croatia than the one we beat. This years Croatia team have done brilliant to reach the semi's but they've massively over achieved.

How anyone could try and give Southgate credit for Bellingham is beyond me.

We are never going to agree and we don't need to. England have won nothing under Southgate and I'm confident to bet anything you'd wish that they never will. 

Southgate has met expectations with the teams he has beaten, not exceeded them. If England are ever going to win anything then they need that to change.

EDIT - Regarding Brendan Rodgers - he is an egomaniac. If they pay him the money he asks for he would take the England job all day long. Although raised a Catholic he's also from a mixed marriage and not a sectarian or bitter man whatsoever.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Jonny Vegas

[SuperBacon]

55 minutes ago, Jonny Vegas said:

Mbappe was anonymous all game.

I don't particularly agree or disagree with much of what you're saying, but the fact that Mbappe was anonymous all game is down to the tactics, and how they were implemented by the players. 

It's not as if he just couldn't be arsed for the night, there is a reason he was kept quiet.

[Factotum]

Southgate's in game management is really poor. His subs are always late and who he takes off is always baffling. To take Saka off for instance was ridiculous.

He's a good bloke but he has a level. If England ever truly want to win something they simply need a manager who can get them over the line in those types of games.

[PunkStep]

Good heavens, Messi for that third goal. Tied up Gvardiol in all kinds of knots for that. He's one game away from what will surely be the final big chapter of his incredible career, I hope he does it. He fucking deserves it. 

[Factotum]

Messi. Just the absolute bollocks. Love the guy. Hope he does it.

[air_raid]

Random fact I just discovered for fans about stats about England goal-scorers. Regulars to the other thread might know (or have tried to forget) how hard I bang the drum for Lineker's 48 goals for England in just 80 caps (better than a goal every 2 games) compared to Bobby Charlton scoring 49 in 106 while playing for FAR better England sides, and Rooney's 53 in 120. Which of course, all pale in comparison to Greavsie's 44 in 57, again while having the luxury of playing for England when they were in the argument for best team in the world (them or Brazil, for many years).

So, the media obviously covered Harry Kane reaching Rooney's 53 the other day. In how many caps? I just learned, in the very game that he reached Lineker's 80 mark, at a rate that's better than 2 goals every 3 games. For a "stat padder", achieving the best goals per game ratio since Greavsie (excluding people with really low caps numbers like "1 in 1" oddities like Franny Jeffers or David Nugent) is still a fair achievement.

For the interested - with "a goal every other game" the old fashioned good return for a striker e.g. 0.5 goals a game, here are the goal getters by numbers with a few other selections thrown in.... Greaves 0.77, Kane 0.66, Lineker 0.6, Rooney 0.44, Shearer 30 in 63 (0.47), Owen 40 in 89 (0.45), Crouchy 22 in 42 (0.52.).

That said.... Lineker didn't get 5 games a year against Slovenia, Estonia and Kosovo so I still think he was the best. He padded no stats. Although he did like a game against Poland or Turkey.

[Ronnie]

59 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Although he did like a game against Poland or Turkey

Don't sleep on Malaysia! https://www.the-afc.com/en/more/news/asian_classics_england’s_lineker_recalls_that_night_against_malaysia_in_kuala_lumpur.html

I remember his answer after the game to the question of which of his four goals was his favourite: "The first. You can't score any more until you've got the first." I loved the logic of that and apply it to this day, for example, congratulating somebody when they're struggling to give up smoking and have just made it to "only" two weeks; "Can't get to three until you've got to two."

[air_raid]

8 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Don't sleep on Malaysia! https://www.the-afc.com/en/more/news/asian_classics_england’s_lineker_recalls_that_night_against_malaysia_in_kuala_lumpur.html

I remember his answer after the game to the question of which of his four goals was his favourite: "The first. You can't score any more until you've got the first." I loved the logic of that and apply it to this day, for example, congratulating somebody when they're struggling to give up smoking and have just made it to "only" two weeks; "Can't get to three until you've got to two."

If you want to get into it, I loved the symmetry of the Cameroon games. In the sweltering heat of Italia 90 he got hacked down twice by two different players and dusted himself off to put away two pens. Then in (IIRC) Feb 91 they came to Wembley on a freezing cold Wednesday night for a friendly and Lineker ended up chopped down again. Got up to take the penalty. Very different circumstances, very different conditions, different goalkeeper... same result. And he knicked a second off of the toe of Wrighty later in the game too.

Also, the four against Spain in the Bernabeu... as a Barcelona player. Bastard. And should have had a fifth.

[Ronnie]

18 minutes ago, air_raid said:

In the sweltering heat of Italia 90 he got hacked down twice by two different players and dusted himself off to put away two pens.

I suppose that's reminiscent of the previous QF in that, as Kane is reported to do, he decided before the match where a penalty will go and then sticks to it. The system breaks down when you get a second penalty, so I recall him explaining once that his solution was to blast it as hard as he could down the middle and hope the goalkeeper moved. Definitely a better plan than launching the ball into orbit!

Edited December 15, 2022 by Ronnie