Moderators PowerButchi Posted June 4, 2021 Moderators Share Posted June 4, 2021 Crikey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 4, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted June 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Tommy! said: Indeed, and it wasn't my intention to imply otherwise, it just seemed supportive of your point and highlights the logical conflict in the matter as I objectively know what I feel is unsupported by logic, yet I still feel it. That's absolutely fair, and I very much appreciate that - it's amazing how much of a minefield sexuality is because of societal norms and conditioning. In the final analysis, it really is bizarre how something so personal should be so heavily influenced by a society comprised of people you might never even meet, let alone get to know, let alone shag. Ultimately, this is an exercise how we really should just live and let fucking live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted June 5, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2021 Race is the same. Why should where somebody was born, the colour of their skin etc have any effect on how you want to live your life? It's disgusting tribalism. It's also unusual to see how the lgbtqia+ attitudes have become reviled given how many myths and legends from the past involved deities and ancient heroes having both male and female lovers, and it not being frowned upon at all thousands of years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra_gordo Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 (edited) I've always hated the term ally, like, shouldn't we all be allies by default? Straying slightly but after reading this thread and genuinely beaming at what a good bunch of folk we have on here i saw this ad on Facebook from Intaflora and the comments section is like the Mos Eisley cantina. Absolute cunts. https://www.facebook.com/115328583854/posts/10158967860923855/ Edited June 5, 2021 by cobra_gordo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 What a lovely thread. I've not signed in in ages and too see so many people coming out and feeling safe to do so is very welcoming. Congratulations to you all ❤️ I've spent the last umpteen years working with LGBTQ people and recently stepped away from that (mostly) because I've not had or never been able to socialise, because of the nature of the work. Declaring and having partners vetted is extremely unsettling and puts massive pressure on early relationships. By definition, I'm very openly trans, pan and grey a, yet never have really had a community. I've tended to go to cishet places and then be the only trans in the village, because at the end of the day I'm just me. Work life has been different, and when I first went to work as me I was 1of about 3 trans people in a call centre that was full of l, particularly, and gbt people. Since then lgbtq people have been very prevailing and in my last substance misuse job it was about 40/50 percent lgbtq employees. That helps with safety and understanding if shit hits the fan, as most of us have been through some trauma ans then some on our journeys. See the biphobia mentioned here, one of my gay mates got abused filmed whilst doing so and reported, just yesterday for being camp. Pride is not always about celebration and is a reminder that there's still loads of work to do. There's little in Covid provision for lgbtq communities despite being the most likely to smoke, live in hmos and be lonely because groups, bars and social events have dwindled to zilch in many places. Lgbtq people are also more likely to smoke or substance abuse, dealing with shane, guilt and a myriad of other things. Add in a respitory disease pandemic and it's a recipe for disaster. Vaccine uptake is low amongst lgbtq people who have long since lost faith in medical professionals being able to help them. Lesbian DV remains high and largely unreported, ditto things like coercive and financial control in gay relationships. Chemsex is a massive issue(please do get tested after a party!) There's a myriad of other things that really need sorting, heck its only this year that census will record lgbtq people and even then only if they are brave enough to out themselves, many dont. lgbtq statistics are not well recorded anywhere, making funding difficult and resources scare on a wider scale. Pride was started from riots and whilst to some the pink or rainbow pound is they goal, remember that there are still many people fighting for the basics, struggling with who they are and their sexuality amongst other things. we're not there yet, but together we can do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted June 5, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2021 Is there a good reliable site for a glossary to commonly used terms, to learn from? One of the biggest issues I have when I see or read discussions is people use terms or phrases which have passed me by. For example LGBT I know, I grew up with it. Then it was LGBTQ, and I went off and read up on it and why it changed but now I see people using LGBTQIA+ and I know I'm inclined to learn the in's and outs of two more letters and everything that fulls under +. Now that's not too difficult but the amount of terms I see referenced or used on twitter and a search just finds more people using it with no one saying what it actually means is becoming more and more common. Even more common is finding a long argument between two people on why it's right or wrong and where something fits into it, which just makes it harder to penetrate as an outsider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 17 minutes ago, Tommy! said: Is there a good reliable site for a glossary to commonly used terms, to learn from? One of the biggest issues I have when I see or read discussions is people use terms or phrases which have passed me by. For example LGBT I know, I grew up with it. Then it was LGBTQ, and I went off and read up on it and why it changed but now I see people using LGBTQIA+ and I know I'm inclined to learn the in's and outs of two more letters and everything that fulls under +. Now that's not too difficult but the amount of terms I see referenced or used on twitter and a search just finds more people using it with no one saying what it actually means is becoming more and more common. Even more common is finding a long argument between two people on why it's right or wrong and where something fits into it, which just makes it harder to penetrate as an outsider. Personally, I'd say go with what you're comfy with. Of course those trying to mock or belittle try and take things like 'quiltbag' or variations of lgbtq to the extreme. If you are happy with lgbt, lgbtq or lgbtq+ use that. Dont get me started on pronoun volunteering which I hate, mainly because it force outs people against their will and also reaffirms to those who cant transition or live authenticly for whatever reason that they're still living a lie and is very damaging. Using she her constantly in emails etc etc because it's the done thing when you're actually he him for example , will drive people batshit as there's no escape from it and is a constant source of pain and reminds that they can't transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted June 5, 2021 Author Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2021 I'm not finding the pronoun-volunteering issue very clear, @patiirc - I think I roughly get what you mean, but I'm aware I could be misinterpreting. Do you mean insisting on people giving their pronouns in day-to-day life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 I really dislike the way queer has been reappropriated in some circles. Always by cis white heterosexuals who know they are the default setting. They don’t want to be seen as boring or part of the oppressive group, so they say they’re queer because they think an actor of the same sex is good looking, or they once enjoyed being tied up during sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted June 5, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: I really dislike the way queer has been reappropriated in some circles. Always by cis white heterosexuals who know they are the default setting. They don’t want to be seen as boring or part of the oppressive group, so they say they’re queer because they think an actor of the same sex is good looking, or they once enjoyed being tied up during sex. Off Topic again, and I'm making my self sound like an out of touch 80 year old, but I only ever use the word queer as a general term for odd or unusual "I feel a bit queer" or "I can't get that done by 11, there's something queer in the data" or responding to a story about something unusual happening with "how queer". I have no idea where I picked this up from, much like using jaxs and jobbie despite living my whole life in Birmingham. On topic based on that last line is there some sort of crossover, or some people who force such crossover, these days between broader pride celebrations and the heterosexual bdsm scene? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Chris B said: I'm not finding the pronoun-volunteering issue very clear, @patiirc - I think I roughly get what you mean, but I'm aware I could be misinterpreting. Do you mean insisting on people giving their pronouns in day-to-day life? Yeah kind of. You'll see it in work, emails, on twitter and at meetings and so on. 'My name is Fred, my pronouns are he/him.' Thing is, Fred's non binary and isn't a he/him at all, in fact he'd rather have no pronouns at all. However Fred can't yet come out because of Fred's situation at home. Thus Fred is stuck misgendering Fred, until Fred is able to come out. Thus meaning Fred is reminded of this every single day, increasing anxiety, sparking any body dysphoria and or dysmorphia and making Fred miserable as Fred's living a daily lie. Fred's exhausted with keeping up the pretence. Hopefully that clarifies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 Can’t Fred just not use or disclose their pronouns? Surely that must fall under anti discrimination rules, it’s like having to disclose your sexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 I cant think of a single instance in life where you would HAVE to give your pronouns. I could be wrong but surely as Keith said, you could just choose not to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jesse Posted June 5, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2021 I think there's a lot of pressure to do it, in a well-meaning way. If you're working in a company that's trying to be progressive, say, and everyone does pronouns then looks to you and you don't want to do it, you either out yourself by your reluctance or make yourself look like a bigot. You see it a lot on social media too, where the call for cis people to put their pronouns in their bio has morphed among some people to mean not putting them there means you're a bigot, forcing closeted people to out themselves or be ostracised. The company I work for now are mostly decent about it, we did an anonymous survey last year and over half of us marked ourselves down as LGBTQIA+. We're fully remote and we have a pronoun section in the company Slack which people are free to use if they want - it's really handy when talking to someone you rarely interact with to be able to open their Slack bio and see what pronouns they prefer but otherwise we don't call attention to it so people don't feel pressured or singled out in meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jesse said: I think there's a lot of pressure to do it, in a well-meaning way. If you're working in a company that's trying to be progressive, say, and everyone does pronouns then looks to you and you don't want to do it, you either out yourself by your reluctance or make yourself look like a bigot. You see it a lot on social media too, where the call for cis people to put their pronouns in their bio has morphed among some people to mean not putting them there means you're a bigot, forcing closeted people to out themselves or be ostracised. The company I work for now are mostly decent about it, we did an anonymous survey last year and over half of us marked ourselves down as LGBTQIA+. We're fully remote and we have a pronoun section in the company Slack which people are free to use if they want - it's really handy when talking to someone you rarely interact with to be able to open their Slack bio and see what pronouns they prefer but otherwise we don't call attention to it so people don't feel pressured or singled out in meetings. Oh, I have no doubt that there sometimes is pressure on people to do it, and the Slack channel thing you highlighted sounds great. I was more thinking of where you HAVE to do it. That would, as far as I know, be illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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