Pride

[Chest Rockwell]

19 minutes ago, scratchdj said:

Clothing is something that I find an interesting one, as we’ve been told by society what is male and female attire. However females have, in recent times, worn clothes that one might typically associate with the male gender. Women can wear trousers, but men can’t wear skirts etc.

So I also welcome those lines being blurred, as really clothing is there first and foremast to keep us warm and comfortable. Past that, it’s an extension somewhat of our personalities and what makes us comfortable and happy. Why should your assigned gender dictate what you can and can’t wear? Leggings, for example, are incredibly comfy and practical, did you know?

It find myself getting annoyed when I'm shopping for clothes for my kids and I have to look through the boys stuff and the girls stuff, all separately located online, and you can't even group them by toggling a filter. Which where I sometimes find identical clothes but with the only difference being bold primaries instead of pastel colours. 

 

I know it's the same for adults fashion but it's even more plainly ridiculous when it's toddlers who all have the same body shape.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Chest Rockwell

[Carbomb]

I think for me the additional issue with the Norm MacDonald video (and, like Chris B, my intention isn't to have a go at SaitoRyo, but just as to comment on the video itself and the narrative therein) is that it perpetuates the notion that being gay is all about sex, and it intersects with the long-standing conditioning of society to not just see sex as dirty and disgusting, but specifically gay sex as being that even more, and so he's using the graphic description of it as a means of eliciting humour via subconscious disgust.

It's particularly damaging because it continues to negate the simple perception that being gay or bi is a legitimate emotional orientation, of which sex is only a part (and, indeed, doesn't have to be at all, if an LGBTQ+ person is also asexual). We've seen this with all the bullshit recently from homophobic parents who don't want their kids learning about gay people because "kids should just be allowed to be kids", and just won't listen when they're told that nobody's proposing teaching them about sex.

A large part of why I've struggled all my adult life to deal with any notions that I might be anything other than 100% hetero is because I, like so many, have grown up surrounded by an ideoscape and mediascape of messages and signs designed to cultivate in us the above notions regarding homosexuality. Despite having parents who are progressive AF, who were assiduous in inculcating progressive values in myself and my sisters as we grew up, it proved to be impossible to avoid these messages, and as such I ended up with a perception that became monolithic and insurmountable in my subconscious: that to be gay/homosexual was "defective" and "less than" as a human being. It's dirty, it's immoral, you get AIDS. My rational mind has always told me otherwise, but because of this conditioning, it meant that, when I finally got to a stage when I started questioning my sexuality at around 13, 14 years old, my internal conflict was hideous and detrimental. It lessened over the years with my experimentation, but it never fully went away.

In essence, it felt like there was a switch in my brain that had been flipped to one setting in early life, had rusted over, and had become impossible to flip to the position my rational mind knew to be true. A big part of that was (and I'm sorry to bore people by mentioning this yet again) the bullying I experienced during my formative years; it means that I now have an overwhelming fear of being mocked, belittled, and ostracised again, and because I'd seen what happened to other boys I knew who came out, not to mention the general societal culture of how LGBTQ+ people are treated (anyone remember all the tabloid headlines of the 80s and 90s about Freddie Mercury, Boy George, Elton John, etc.?), I was really reluctant to take the measures necessary to deal with it. Even just straight male friends using it as "banter" intended to be friendly ribbing was hurtful, because I couldn't shake the feeling they were trying to make me the "cut-up" and "sub" me again. The other thing was that I've had former, straight-identifying friends who, on finding out I wasn't hetero, drunkenly/druggedly (is that a word?) proposition me sexually, and then, when I inevitably turned them down, just stop speaking to me, probably out of embarrassment when they sobered up.

Over recent years, I've started actively working on the conditioning, via meditation and thought exercises designed to erode that monolith in my head. It's gradually working, thankfully.

The crazy thing is that my sexuality, as it is now, isn't even all that "extreme" in terms of how society portrays the sexual "spectrum", so to speak. Like SuperBacon, I'm not really part of the community. So, having had by comparison only a mere glimpse of it myself, it disturbs me to imagine how much worse it must be or have been for people who really do fall 100% under the LGBTQ+ banner, and who have to struggle just to fucking be.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Carbomb

[Hoptimus]

1 hour ago, Carbomb said:

I think for me the additional issue with the Norm MacDonald video (and, like Chris B, my intention isn't to have a go at SaitoRyo, but just as to comment on the video itself and the narrative therein) is that it perpetuates the notion that being gay is all about sex, and it intersects with the long-standing conditioning of society to not just see sex as dirty and disgusting, but specifically gay sex as being that even more, and so he's using the graphic description of it as a means of eliciting humour via subconscious disgust.

It's particularly damaging because it continues to negate the simple perception that being gay or bi is a legitimate emotional orientation, of which sex is only a part (and, indeed, doesn't have to be at all, if an LGBTQ+ person is also asexual). We've seen this with all the bullshit recently from homophobic parents who don't want their kids learning about gay people because "kids should just be allowed to be kids", and just won't listen when they're told that nobody's proposing teaching them about sex.

A large part of why I've struggled all my adult life to deal with any notions that I might be anything other than 100% hetero is because I, like so many, have grown up surrounded by an ideoscape and mediascape of messages and signs designed to cultivate in us the above notions regarding homosexuality. Despite having parents who are progressive AF, who were assiduous in inculcating progressive values in myself and my sisters as we grew up, it proved to be impossible to avoid these messages, and as such I ended up with a perception that became monolithic and insurmountable in my subconscious: that to be gay/homosexual was "defective" and "less than" as a human being. It's dirty, it's immoral, you get AIDS. My rational mind has always told me otherwise, but because of this conditioning, it meant that, when I finally got to a stage when I started questioning my sexuality at around 13, 14 years old, my internal conflict was hideous and detrimental. It lessened over the years with my experimentation, but it never fully went away.

In essence, it felt like there was a switch in my brain that had been flipped to one setting in early life, had rusted over, and had become impossible to flip to the position my rational mind knew to be true. A big part of that was (and I'm sorry to bore people by mentioning this yet again) the bullying I experienced during my formative years; it means that I now have an overwhelming fear of being mocked, belittled, and ostracised again, and because I'd seen what happened to other boys I knew who came out, not to mention the general societal culture of how LGBTQ+ people are treated (anyone remember all the tabloid headlines of the 80s and 90s about Freddie Mercury, Boy George, Elton John, etc.?), I was really reluctant to take the measures necessary to deal with it. Even just straight male friends using it as "banter" intended to be friendly ribbing was hurtful, because I couldn't shake the feeling they were trying to make me the "cut-up" and "sub" me again. The other thing was that I've had former, straight-identifying friends who, on finding out I wasn't hetero, drunkenly/druggedly (is that a word?) proposition me sexually, and then, when I inevitably turned them down, just stop speaking to me, probably out of embarrassment when they sobered up.

Over recent years, I've started actively working on the conditioning, via meditation and thought exercises designed to erode that monolith in my head. It's gradually working, thankfully.

The crazy thing is that my sexuality, as it is now, isn't even all that "extreme" in terms of how society portrays the sexual "spectrum", so to speak. Like SuperBacon, I'm not really part of the community. So, having had by comparison only a mere glimpse of it myself, it disturbs me imagine how much worse it must be or have been for people who really do fall 100% under the LGBTQ+ banner, and who have to struggle just to fucking be.

You kind of hit a nail on the head of those who cannot differentiate between, gender identity, gender expression and sexuality. A lot of people cannot separate them and see a lot of it being the one and the same which it isn't. 

[Tommy!]

3 hours ago, Carbomb said:

and it intersects with the long-standing conditioning of society to not just see sex as dirty and disgusting, but specifically gay sex as being that even more

Off Topic by miles here, so apologies and skim past this (and all my posts if you ask me) , but I always find anything sexual around the anus, be it hetero or homosexual, to be incredibly un-arousing and I attribute that to a subconscious association driven into me by society with the anus and bowel as a whole as something dirty and disgusting. I hate people seeing me walk out of a toilet cubicle for fear they think I've defecated.

I've only had three mood killing moments during sex and one was a woman trying to be sexy and propose anal. It even puts me off POV porn when they shoot it so you get a screen full of her balloon knot. 

I'm all for everyone else to do what they like to each other, or even do it do themselves (where is Loki these days anyway), and I'm sure it's great fun if I could get past that association but I can't. 

The other 2, while I'm dragging this off topic, were a woman having the unfortunate skill of sounding like two flip flops being slapped together in a beach car park to get the sand off them and a woman with an age play fetish that we had to discuss a clear boundary on because I wasn't comfortable with some things she was slipping in. 

As I say, off topic. TL;DR - I'm the anti Malbranque. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Tommy!

[Jazzy G]

@scratchdjI really wish, especially on hot days like this, that I could chuck on a sundress or a mumu or suchlike as I bet they're so nice and breezy. Likewise in winter I feel like rather than long pants I could chuck on a pair of leggings or the like under some shorts for a bit of extra warmth. 

[Carbomb]

52 minutes ago, Tommy! said:

Off Topic by miles here, so apologies and skim past this (and all my posts if you ask me) , but I always find anything sexual around the anus, be it hetero or homosexual, to be incredibly un-arousing and I attribute that to a subconscious association driven into me by society with the anus and bowel as a whole as something dirty and disgusting. I hate people seeing me walk out of a toilet cubicle for fear they think I've defecated.

I've only had three mood killing moments during sex and one was a woman trying to be sexy and propose anal. It even puts me off POV porn when they shoot it so you get a screen full of her balloon knot. 

I'm all for everyone else to do what they like to each other, or even do it do themselves (where is Loki these days anyway), and I'm sure it's great fun if I could get past that association but I can't. 

The other 2, while I'm dragging this off topic, were a woman having the unfortunate skill of sounding like two flip flops being slapped together in a beach car park to get the sand off them and a woman with an age play fetish that we had to discuss a clear boundary on because I wasn't comfortable with some things she was slipping in. 

As I say, off topic. TL;DR - I'm the anti Malbranque. 

Thing is, though, it's important to bear in mind that a lot of gay/bi men aren't into anal either. Quite a few are not really into penetrative sex; a couple of my previous partners were very much averse to it for the same reasons you were. IIRC, Oscar Wilde wasn't particularly into it, and I'm sure there are a few other famous gay/bi guys who made that preference known, too.

[StuffAndThings]

I'm aromantic asexual which seems to rile some people up for some reason. You just haven't met the right person yet! Have you had your hormones checked? How do you know if you haven't tried it? 

The only thing that annoys me is when there is no option for me, my previous work (fairly high on the Stonewall equality index) used to send an annual questionnaire with the options heterosexual/gay man/gay woman/bi/prefer not to say even though I would email every year asking why there wasn't a box for 'other'.

[Jazzy G]

@StuffAndThingsyeah, you have to tick "prefer not to say" when it's actually "none of the above". There's a surprising amount of Acephobia, and lack of understanding as it's a spectrum. Some people may have a rampant sex drive, but just no desire to have sex with anybody in particular, others may just hate the idea of sex and romance etc. I love a cuddle with Mrs Jazzy, but whenever I've done all that sex stuff it's just not been enjoyable to me. I love the idea of sex, I just don't enjoy the actual performing of the act. 

[Keith Houchen]

15 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Thing is, though, it's important to bear in mind that a lot of gay/bi men aren't into anal either. Quite a few are not really into penetrative sex; a couple of my previous partners were very much averse to it for the same reasons you were. IIRC, Oscar Wilde wasn't particularly into it, and I'm sure there are a few other famous gay/bi guys who made that preference known, too.

I remember someone debating with Stephen Fry saying how he finds anal disgusting and has never had it. He was flummoxed when Fry replied that they have found common ground as he has never had it either. 

[Tommy!]

14 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Thing is, though, it's important to bear in mind that a lot of gay/bi men aren't into anal either

Indeed, and it wasn't my intention to imply otherwise, it just seemed supportive of your point and highlights the logical conflict in the matter as I objectively know what I feel is unsupported by logic, yet I still feel it. 

 

[StuffAndThings]

@jazzygeofferz I tried dating a couple of people when I was 17/18 in an attempt to try and get something to kick in but it didn't work. I was pretty sure there was something wrong with me until I found asexuality in my mid 20s and there was the lightbulb moment that this was me. Been single my entire adult life and really can't see it changing at any point, I'm perfectly happy on my own.

[Jazzy G]

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'd probably end up living as a hermit myself if anything was to happen with Mrs Jazzy, but hopefully it won't. 

[Chest Rockwell]

5 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

This thread has been an absolute treat, sorry if I'm about to stink it up.

For a while I was hung up on Gay Marriage, not in the legal sense, but just in using the word "marriage." I realised that I was being far too narrow in my definition of the term and that in general the gays could probably do with a bit less persecution.  My bad.

If I'm going to label myself it would be a straight, culturally gay, ally.

I think it's a credit to you that you've come to this position despite your religious tendencies. So well done on that.

[Keith Houchen]

16 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

 

If I'm going to label myself it would be a straight, culturally gay, ally.

I know this all comes from a place of good intentions. However, I wouldn’t label myself an ally as that label isn’t mine to give. It’s like how I wouldn’t call myself a feminist or an ally to feminism (I used to) but if feminists want to call me that, then great. Much like if members of the LGBTQ+ community label me an ally, then great. If not, I’ll see what I can do to become one. 

[Keith Houchen]

4 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

I'll put my "This is what a feminist looks like" shirt back in the cupboard then

Nah. Give it to your wife to wear while she does the cleaning.