Pride

[Chris B]

9 hours ago, patiirc said:

This did not age well. Absolutely devastated #RIP xx

I'm sorry to hear that. A friend of mine died from suicide just before Christmas before the pandemic, and that was only a couple of years after transitioning - he'd been attacked in the street earlier that year, his relationship had broken up (which had long-predated the transition) and his family had disowned him. Only one of his brothers came to his funeral. Which was very much his family's loss - the funeral was heartbreaking, but also a real celebration of who he was.

While a lot has changed and it's worth celebrating and talking about that, it's easy to look past the violence and risk that still comes to so many for being who they are.

[RIDDUM_N_STYLE]

Sorry for your loss @patiirc

[Keith Houchen]

11 hours ago, PowerButchi said:

 

On his mountain bike, chihuahua in his basket, not giving a shit. Same as he has for 30 years

Has Rob Puff always had a chihuahua or has he had different breeds over the years?

[Carbomb]

Sorry for your loss, pat.

[courageous]

On 6/7/2021 at 10:52 PM, patiirc said:

Sounds like very much a signs and signifier discussion. 

However if people in these communities weren't abused, have less rights etc then your post may have great merit. 

....So as someone with men on men sexual history do you access hetronormative sexual health services or lgbt ones? if you dont have labels, where do you prefer to go for help where specifics are on offer? 

...Sometimes labels are needed in a wider scale to be able to help whilst not affecting your being in any way shape or form. It's something to consider and isn't bollocks as you put it. 

I have had a priviliged life where I've never even had to "come out" - even my mum at 14 y/o response was 'oh I know that' , but for simplicity I just say I'm gay to avoid the 4 hour philosophical debate.

 

I have a nephew who has one great grandparent who is from Africa, the rest all from Europe... is he "black"?

I have a male friend who I once got a bit frisky with when drunk, the next morning we had a good chat and he was happy he tried it, but wasn't for him... is he "gay"?

Racist cunts will happily label Boris Johnson & Cliff Richard as English, but somehow less so half the English football team

 

This is why I call labels bollocks if they don't come with a definition - if something is important, then you have to tell me what that thing is otherwise you're just allowing the wanker "I identify as a Woman on every third Tuesday" tossers

[patiirc]

13 hours ago, courageous said:

I have had a priviliged life where I've never even had to "come out" - even my mum at 14 y/o response was 'oh I know that' , but for simplicity I just say I'm gay to avoid the 4 hour philosophical debate.

 

I have a nephew who has one great grandparent who is from Africa, the rest all from Europe... is he "black"?

I have a male friend who I once got a bit frisky with when drunk, the next morning we had a good chat and he was happy he tried it, but wasn't for him... is he "gay"?

Racist cunts will happily label Boris Johnson & Cliff Richard as English, but somehow less so half the English football team

 

This is why I call labels bollocks if they don't come with a definition - if something is important, then you have to tell me what that thing is otherwise you're just allowing the wanker "I identify as a Woman on every third Tuesday" tossers

It's taken nearly a month for you to respond? 

Fair enough. Bit confused as you said you've not come out, but in the same line said you had to your mum, who already knew. 

The racism tack is interesting because your post appears to be trying to equate that to coming out, which I think is certainly different way to say labels are useless, especially considering skin colour, race, sexuality etc are part of protected characteristics for a reason. 

I'm sure somewhere your post has merit, and the spin away from basics such as sexual health services,  is also different considering it is a pretty straightforward question tbh. 

Your last paragraph is right back in the semiotics discussion, again and definitely worth a discussion 

Hope you had a cracking pride month some have called it a flaming june. Really different to not have to work, work Prides for the second year in a row, and hopefully off to one  in person as a proud lgbtq person in September, yay! 

PS, there was a deleted post here I think. Brave thing to say. Proud of you. Enjoy your voyage of discovery, get tested regularly and really try to stay away from the Chemsex scene if you can. x

[Keith Houchen]

2 hours ago, patiirc said:

t's taken nearly a month for you to respond? 

 

Maybe they simply hadn’t logged in? There is a month between posts made. 

[Devon Malcolm]

30 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Maybe they simply hadn’t logged in? There is a month between posts made. 

I find you need that long to read a pat post too.

[SuperBacon]

3 hours ago, patiirc said:

and really try to stay away from the Chemsex scene if you can. x

[Tommy!]

Can someone sensible succinctly explain chemsex please? 

[Keith Houchen]

1 hour ago, Tommy! said:

Can someone sensible succinctly explain chemsex please? 

https://www.changegrowlive.org/advice-info/alcohol-drugs/chemsex-drugs Sex and drugs, baby!!

Eee these younguns with their names, in my day chemsex didn’t happen because you had whizz Willy. 

[King Coconut]

I had lots of sex on drugs during my younger years but we just called it sex.

[Michael_3165]

Great topic and much appreciated. 

I have mixed feelings about Pride as a (then) gay person who has attended many pride events and have seen a massive boom in the corporate involvement in the whole thing. Whilst I appreciate the interest that companies have in promoting LGBT awareness, I personally find it to be a rather meaningless, showy performance to show they are "progressive". This feels like jumping on the bandwagon despite their (likely) best intentions. 

The question I have had to wrestle with over the years is the disconnect between LGBT people who just want equality and those that identify as "queer" which tends to be a political movement. Personally I want to be treated EXACTLY the same as the next person on the street. Sure there are the occasional homophobic faux-pas that people make when they don't know I am gay and put their foot in it but the majority of people are reasonable respectful. I have to really try not to take any criticism of my character as an attack on my sexuality because any minority group can have a tendency to see isms and phobias in every interaction. 

Then there is the politically active groups who are "fighting" for LGBT people to be treated as a separate identity group of its own - very much making queerness (or LGBT) a central part of their identity and the politics that come along with that. I personally find this unpleasant and is fuelled by the likes of Stonewall and other organisations that often come across like wanting special treatment for us gays. 

As for the leaps and bounds in how homophobia has petered out over time, one only has to look at the comedy 30 years ago, newspaper articles from 20 years ago, comics etc. The list goes on and on. I remember when Tracey Smothers came out at a 1PW show (as a babyface) and got the audience (with a huge child/teenager fanbase) to chant "Faggot! Faggot! Faggot!" Barely anyone batted an eyelid at the time and me and my then partner left feeling deeply uneasy about the whole experience. I believe that over the next 20 years we will have many of the actively homophobic people dying off leaving a more liberal or at least thoughtful society. Since I have been bisexual and married a woman, the key issue I found was the slurs my now in-laws have said before they knew I am bisexual. The terms "poofter", "willy woofter", "pansy", bumder" (yes people have adopted that from Inbetweeners not that long ago!) and "shirt lifter" were routinely used at the dinner table when talking about gay celebrities. 

In sort... Equality Yes. Special treatment. Nope.

[Carbomb]

52 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said:

Then there is the politically active groups who are "fighting" for LGBT people to be treated as a separate identity group of its own - very much making queerness (or LGBT) a central part of their identity and the politics that come along with that. I personally find this unpleasant and is fuelled by the likes of Stonewall and other organisations that often come across like wanting special treatment for us gays. 

 

In sort... Equality Yes. Special treatment. Nope.

Please describe what you're referring to. Because I've never seen, heard, or read any of this from any LGBT+ organisations or people. I have heard it from reactionaries and conservatives pushing back against the progress being made, but I don't wish to ascribe that kind of motivation to you off the bat, so I'd appreciate some kind of detail.

[Michael_3165]

18 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Please describe what you're referring to. Because I've never seen, heard, or read any of this from any LGBT+ organisations or people. I have heard it from reactionaries and conservatives pushing back against the progress being made, but I don't wish to ascribe that kind of motivation to you off the bat, so I'd appreciate some kind of detail.

I think the problem is that I do not like the politicisation of the LGBT cause. I am very much in favour of equality though I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Stonewall's agenda is more about promoting the LGBT cause to the point that we are a distinct group - outside from the mainstream "straight norm". My sexuality does not - nor should IMO - define me. I am merely pointing at the tendency for some in the community to cling onto one aspect of their lives (sexuality) as their key defining feature. I am bisexual but I am not defined by it. 

I believe we have made huge steps in the right direction, though Stonewall and the major activists have - in my view - a strong reason to maintain the narrative that we are all somehow second class citizens, treated appallingly etc. For example, I abhor how we as a community use Pride events as a way of strutting around in hot-pants, groping each other and almost throwing disinhibition in the public's face. It makes us all look bad and singles us out as "different" to the mainstream. I believe the likes of Stonewall love it, because it keeps them in a role. If we admit that things have drastically improved, what need is there for the likes of Stonewall et al? 

In short, I do not like the fact that there is a huge, political industry that is designed to keep the narrative that we are victims. We aren't and I don't appreciate people making the case that we are. 

I can see why you would want more information. I am left leaning socially/middling right economically. I find that when I raise these issues (and they are just an opinion, I have no monopoly on the truth) I get a mildly hostile response from some people in the community. I am not "queer enough", similar to ethnic minorities that go against the Critical Race Theory grain and get accused of colluding with racists. Its nonsense. Gay people don't inherently have to be leftists, though I do define myself as a liberal in the traditional sense. 

Hope that makes sense. Again, it's a view and there will be differing views. Maybe it is my distain for the idea that I am supposed to somehow be oppressed. I am not, nor ever will be, a victim. I do not appreciate those that want to use their sexuality as a badge of honour which is how Stonewall et al seem to like playing it. I would like to say that I have a huge number of acquaintances who actively go against the Stonewall grain because they see it as a way too politicised force. Back when it was created that was certainly needed; we needed a voice, action taken etc. I now feel it is mildly redundant and they often pick fights about fairly trivial things in the UK. I would suggest that they focus less on the UK and more on the horrific practices in other countries (death penalty, public floggings, concentration style camps for gays etc).