UKFF Questions Thread v3

[air_raid]

34 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

"Brainbuster" is another interesting one, because in Japan the name just means what we would call a vertical suplex. What we would think of as a brainbuster they would either call a "vertical drop brainbuster" or a "sheer drop brainbuster". My pet theory is that American wrestlers or fans heard the name "brainbuster", thought it was some dangerous new move they'd never seen before, then when they saw it and it turned out to be just a suplex, they rationalised in their head that actually it was a suplex with a bit more of a head drop to it. So that became a separate move, called the Brainbuster in America, but by the time that made its way back to Japan, they needed a different name for that too!

Fond memories of reading Japanese names in Apter mags and getting over-excited wondering what they meant. "Avalanche Style" being one most perverts know now as the equivalent of "super" for a move done off the top. For ages I was dying to know what it meant about El Samurai doing a "Swan Dive DDT" to be fairly disappointed to learn "Swan Dive" meant springboard.

[Tommy!]

6 hours ago, air_raid said:

"Avalanche Style"

"super- pubic fat muffin topping out your onesie"?

[Browser Brady]

I know this is clip form, but is this match as good as it seems?

Not seen that counter to a chokeslam before ?

 

Would love to have seen Hakushi and Hayabusa in wcw when they still had a decent cruiserweight division.
 

I dont think the wwf even began to scratch the surface of his gimmick in 94/95. 

 

 

 

 

[Browser Brady]

5 minutes ago, Browser Brady said:

I know this is clip form, but is this match as good as it seems?

Not seen that counter to a chokeslam before ?

 

Would love to have seen Hakushi and Hayabusa in wcw when they still had a decent cruiserweight division.
 

I dont think the wwf even began to scratch the surface of his gimmick in 94/95. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What an entrance by Hakushi !!

Edited September 19, 2023 by Browser Brady

[BomberPat]

The story of that match is wild. Jinsei Shinzaki fought Great Muta in NJPW, in an attempt to banish the Muta demon from Keiji Mutoh's body. In that match, Muta wrote the symbol for "death" on a prayer stick in Shinzaki's blood, absolutely destroyed him, and had him carried out as if he'd died.

This match, in which Shinzaki is still wearing the blood-soaked gear from the Muta match months earlier, is Shinzaki attempting to fight his way back from the afterlife - hence being slow and zombie-like for most of it - and the thing blocking him from returning to the world of the living is The Undertaker.

[waters44]

Does anyone know of any Britwres shows near-ish Berkshire coming up that would be suitable to take an 8 year old to? I’ve tried googling it but I don’t even know what to search for honestly

[tiger_rick]

15 hours ago, waters44 said:

Does anyone know of any Britwres shows near-ish Berkshire coming up that would be suitable to take an 8 year old to? I’ve tried googling it but I don’t even know what to search for honestly

I don't know anything about them but there is a show in Bracknell on Friday night on Eventbrite. Claims to be a Family show.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/superstars-of-wrestling-live-in-bracknell-tickets-672628057627?aff=ebdssbdestsearch

https://www.facebook.com/sprstrsofwrestling?locale=en_GB

Edited September 26, 2023 by tiger_rick

[waters44]

On 9/26/2023 at 11:51 AM, tiger_rick said:

I don't know anything about them but there is a show in Bracknell on Friday night on Eventbrite. Claims to be a Family show.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/superstars-of-wrestling-live-in-bracknell-tickets-672628057627?aff=ebdssbdestsearch

https://www.facebook.com/sprstrsofwrestling?locale=en_GB

Thank you for this! Bracknell is a bit far but it did lead me to something else a lot closer to home, nice one!

[hallicks]

Why did they have Flair drop the title to Bret on a house show? Was it a last minute thing, planned all along? I know they’ve rarely done big title changes on TV, but was there more value in making it a coliseum exclusive than, say, advertising it as a TV main event 2-3 weeks in advance?

[gmoney]

1 hour ago, hallicks said:

Why did they have Flair drop the title to Bret on a house show? Was it a last minute thing, planned all along? I know they’ve rarely done big title changes on TV, but was there more value in making it a coliseum exclusive than, say, advertising it as a TV main event 2-3 weeks in advance?

From the Observer:

 

Bret Hart captured the WWF title in a last minute decision from Ric Flair in approximately 25:00 on 10/12 in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan at the television tapings amidst much WCW-like booking-on-the-fly chaos. Hart won the title by submission using the sharpshooter after a superplex in what was said to have been an excellent match. The title change will be announced on the syndicated shows this weekend although I'm not certain of a television air date, but it could be as soon as the 10/19 Prime Time show. The title change was a decision made within the last week because the WWF needed to get a babyface, and Hart in particular, over big time in a hurry because of uncertainty as to the long-term future of Ultimate Warrior and short term because Undertaker isn't expected back after undergoing shoulder surgery this past week until mid-December.

[hallicks]

23 minutes ago, gmoney said:

From the Observer:

 

Bret Hart captured the WWF title in a last minute decision from Ric Flair in approximately 25:00 on 10/12 in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan at the television tapings amidst much WCW-like booking-on-the-fly chaos. Hart won the title by submission using the sharpshooter after a superplex in what was said to have been an excellent match. The title change will be announced on the syndicated shows this weekend although I'm not certain of a television air date, but it could be as soon as the 10/19 Prime Time show. The title change was a decision made within the last week because the WWF needed to get a babyface, and Hart in particular, over big time in a hurry because of uncertainty as to the long-term future of Ultimate Warrior and short term because Undertaker isn't expected back after undergoing shoulder surgery this past week until mid-December.

Thanks. Had Flair indicated he wanted to back to WCW at this point? I understand wanting to go to a babyface champion in a hurry, though I can’t quite see the jump from “Warrior uncertain + Undertaker surgery = Bret wins in house show title change”. Let’s say either of those things weren’t in play - are they making Taker champ on a house show instead? 

[gmoney]

I don't know, but I did find a bit more about the decision to release it in video:

At the end of the show, they aired a clip of Hart holding the title belt up after winning the match. In the background they had a Coliseum video banner, which makes me think that the Flair-Hart title change match won't air on television (particularly since there was no mention of the title match airing ever made on any shows) but will be released on video. The logic behind it is obvious, to try and push video sales, but in this case, it's a bad move. Even though Hart is one of the best workers in the country and has been in semifinals and third from the top consistently over the past year, most fans still see him as a midcard tag team wrestler. In addition, most fans still believe that size is it, since that's what has been pushed for so many years. Hart is going to need an awful lot of help to make it in the spot they've got him in. If it was Warrior or Savage winning the title, there would be an argument to releasing it to video, but they need to get the casual audience, which will never buy a video, to see Hart score that big win for the visual impact of Hart being pushed as the main guy.

[hallicks]

Thanks again. I hadn’t really considered Bret’s place on the card or his size as potential “issues”, which makes the decision even weirder in hindsight, as that item says. 

[wandshogun09]

That was also around the time Flair had his ear issue or vertigo or whatever isn’t it? And from what I remember of Bret’s shoot interview covering it, he thought Vince had lost a bit of confidence in Flair after his match against Savage in September (where Flair won the belt back), didn’t go to Vince’s liking, to the point he made them go out and do the match over immediately in front of the same crowd.

I’d imagine the main reason was the fact they were about to lose Warrior and Bulldog to steroid controversy though yeah. Plus Hogan wasn’t around and they needed a cleaner image repping the promotion as champion. 

[air_raid]

23 hours ago, hallicks said:

Why did they have Flair drop the title to Bret on a house show?

This has been repeated in error on the internet so many times that it's taken root. House shows and TV tapings are different. Saskatoon (and Regina the night after) were TV tapings, hence the Coliseum banners being there and full camera crews and proper production. 13th in Regina was where they taped Money Inc winning the tag belts back from the Natural Disasters, which aired on telly. House shows are what they now call "live events" and aren't taped i.e. the matches are only for those in attendance - the "house."

21 hours ago, gmoney said:

The title change was a decision made within the last week because the WWF needed to get a babyface, and Hart in particular, over big time in a hurry because of uncertainty as to the long-term future of Ultimate Warrior and short term because Undertaker isn't expected back after undergoing shoulder surgery this past week until mid-December.

 

21 hours ago, hallicks said:

I understand wanting to go to a babyface champion in a hurry, though I can’t quite see the jump from “Warrior uncertain + Undertaker surgery = Bret wins in house show title change”. Let’s say either of those things weren’t in play - are they making Taker champ on a house show instead? 

 

19 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

That was also around the time Flair had his ear issue or vertigo or whatever isn’t it? And from what I remember of Bret’s shoot interview covering it, he thought Vince had lost a bit of confidence in Flair after his match against Savage in September (where Flair won the belt back), didn’t go to Vince’s liking, to the point he made them go out and do the match over immediately in front of the same crowd.

I’d imagine the main reason was the fact they were about to lose Warrior and Bulldog to steroid controversy though yeah. Plus Hogan wasn’t around and they needed a cleaner image repping the promotion as champion. 

All of these factors are part of what happened, in a nutshell. Warrior and Davey Boy both wrestled their last matches on 8th November but its become a myth that Bulldog lost the ICT to Shawn because they were both already out the door - the plan was ALWAYS for Bulldog to transition the belt from Bret to Shawn because if they hadn't moved SummerSlam to Wembley to pop a big gate, Bret would have dropped it to Shawn at SummerSlam in DC. Much promotion on that 27th taping (for the SNME airing 14th) was still geared to promoting Warrior & Savage vs Flair & Razor, which would have been changed if the failed steroid test had already happened.

Bret vs Flair was already a promoted program, taking place in Los Angeles and Red Deer (Alberta) on 10th/11th right before the Saskatoon taping. They definitely didn't just decide last minute that Bret Hart main events were the way forward. It's 8th in Phoenix that Flair gets hurt, battles through Houston on 9th with Warrior and then tries to get back in the ring 16th at the Nassau Coliseum - again with Warrior, the promoted main event which only draws 8500, then he doesn't wrestle again until 23rd November. Rest of the year he's obviously back with Bret, and many of the cancelled Warrior main events had him advertised as wrestling Razor, so regardless of the direction of the title itself, Warrior vs Flair for the title was already scheduled to be over by Survivor Series. We can't really blame Flair losing the title to Bret on Warrior getting the sack ; Warrior wasn't going to win the belt soon anyway. Bret's also written that in the month between him winning the belt and Warrior getting the chop, Vince let him think he might get to go over Warrior at Mania.

Regarding Flair, he's said that after recovering from injury Vince spelled out his near future that as part of going with younger guys, he'd feud with Razor and lose to him - each would blame each other for their loss at Survivor Series and a babyface Razor would likely beat Flair at Mania. Flair decided he didn't fancy that and asked Vince to let him out of his contract, which Vince said he would as long as he'd do one last TV job for Perfect first. But yes, it's true that Vince wasn't sold on what he'd got out of Flair - a stance he'd reverse as quickly as 1998 by his own admission. Backtracking to taking the title off him - the story goes that a sheet with six names on it was passed around for who might be the next guy on top - Bret, Taker, Bulldog (off the strength of his gate at Wembley) and Tito Santana claims he was on it (!) plus two (or three) unknown others, and Vince ended up telling Bret to his face that he was going to be the next top guy. Until he knew he could get Hogan back, of course. Based on Flair being booked and promoted to wrestle Bret for several nights in advance of his injury, and the cancellation of Flair vs Warrior for the belt already on the block, we can surmise that the decision to get the belt from Flair onto Bret was made regardless of Flair getting hurt (though it may have brought it round sooner) and irrespective of Warrior getting sacked.

Edited October 13, 2023 by air_raid