Cheapheat Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Hello everyone. I am hoping to find some good examples of babyface Vs babyface matches. Any classics that you think are the same best example of that type of match would be a wonderful help to me. Also, in babyface Vs babyface matches, is a subtle heel always needed or can the match be simply two good guys battling it out. Thank you so much for any help you can give  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 9 Paid Members Share Posted May 9 (edited) Bret Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid from Raw in 94 is the best example there is, best example there was and best example there ever will be. Bret leads the match as he has to, as the champion, more experienced wrestler and favourite, allowing Kid to fight back as the underdog (as he has to be) and tease the shock win. It’s definitive. Hogan vs Warrior at Mania VI is a totally different flavour but as effective ; both are heroes and neither does anything that heelish. For the flip side where one guy DOES work subtle heel - Bret vs Bulldog at SummerSlam 92, Bret vs Perfect at King of the Ring, Shawn vs Razor at SummerSlam 95. @Cheapheat As this is far from the first time you've asked this kind of question - I believe a previous one was about unique roll up finishes - I must ask ; are you working on some kind of book or work of academia? Edited May 9 by air_raid Bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 9 Paid Members Share Posted May 9 14 hours ago, wandshogun09 said: While we’re on the subject of great tag team matches, one of my favourites has always been the Hart Foundation vs Brain Busters from SummerSlam 89. Has Bret ever talked about that match in any interviews? He’s got such a great memory when it comes to matches in his career but I think I’ve watched every shoot interview he’s done and I can’t recall ever hearing him talk about working with Arn and Tully. Been years since I read his book but surely he mentions it in there? As promised, I’ve checked for you. Most of it is to do with the circumstances and not the match. He describes feeling pretty buzzed that him and Jim are in their groove but feeling deflated to learn the day before the show that they’re losing “an ill-conceived” non title match to Tully & Arn. He puts both over as great wrestlers and Tully as fantastic at being a heat magnet, but after so many of years of being brainwashed by Vince that their crew is miles better than anything the NWA are putting on, he can’t get his head round that two guys so strongly rubber stamped as faces of Crockett have been brought in, made champions and leapfrogged everyone that’s been grafting for the cause. He stands up for them however as (more) guys promised by Vince they’ll make money than they ever had, who decided to leave when they twigged that it wasn’t true. He doesn’t say a word about how the match went, and before moving on to working The Rockers at TV the next day he finishes talking about SummerSlam by - this is going to sound like a punchline but I swear, this is what’s in the book - leaving the show early, getting to his hotel before the PPV finishes, and nailing a random blonde he meets in the bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarlettChad Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 5 hours ago, Cheapheat said: Hello everyone. I am hoping to find some good examples of babyface Vs babyface matches. Any classics that you think are the same best example of that type of match would be a wonderful help to me. Also, in babyface Vs babyface matches, is a subtle heel always needed or can the match be simply two good guys battling it out. Thank you so much for any help you can give  RVD vs Cena ONS 2006 is a great one. Cena plays heel subtly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MungoChutney Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Bret Hart Vs Roddy Piper at WM VIII. Piper plays the heel to a point but the whole story is he won't go full heel. "What the hell, use the bell" is one of Heenan's best ever calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald J Trump Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Cena v Bryan at Summerslam 2013 is a more recent one. If I remember right both were faces in the match, and this laid the groundwork for what was to follow with regards Bryans moment in the sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted May 9 Paid Members Share Posted May 9 7 hours ago, air_raid said: he finishes talking about SummerSlam by - this is going to sound like a punchline but I swear, this is what’s in the book - leaving the show early, getting to his hotel before the PPV finishes, and nailing a random blonde he meets in the bar. The old Excellence Of Sexecution strikes again. I remember a fair bit of that talk in the book. Shame he never elaborated on the match. It’s one of my favourite tag matches and one of my favourite PPV openers ever. Still holds up today as well, like pretty much all of Bret’s stuff does. Yet I never ever hear him asked about it in interviews. Cheers for that Raid, much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 9 Paid Members Share Posted May 9 32 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: The old Excellence Of Sexecution strikes again. I remember a fair bit of that talk in the book. Shame he never elaborated on the match. It’s one of my favourite tag matches and one of my favourite PPV openers ever. Still holds up today as well, like pretty much all of Bret’s stuff does. Yet I never ever hear him asked about it in interviews. It's a fascinating period for him and the Foundation - they only existed as a tag team on TVs, squashing job boys a few times a month and this bout with the Busters which is their only PPV tagging between Mania V and Mania VI. On the road Bret spent the whole of 1989 as a singles wrestler, tangling with Mr Perfect (obviously brilliant matches), Honky, Bravo and Rick Martel (a few of which landed on Coliseum) while Jim slummed it in far less watchable matches with Bad News Brown, The Genius and so on. One of the Genius matches also ended up on a SuperTape, though it was far from super. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted May 9 Paid Members Share Posted May 9 Yeah plus he had those one-off singles matches with Andre and Rick Rude on the tour of Italy in 89. What a year for the Hitman. Still gutted there isn’t footage of the Rude match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reverend Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 For a team as good as the Harts, their Wrestlemania run from 2 until 7 is pretty fucking awful. About the only good match in that is the six man at Wrestlemania 3. It’s shocking how underused they were. Saying that though, their Summerslam matches 88-90 aren’t too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 9 Paid Members Share Posted May 9 2 minutes ago, The Reverend said: For a team as good as the Harts, their Wrestlemania run from 2 until 7 is pretty fucking awful. About the only good match in that is the six man at Wrestlemania 3. It’s shocking how underused they were. Saying that though, their Summerslam matches 88-90 aren’t too bad. I'd say the match with the Nasty Boys is fairly good, we all just remember it as bad because the result upset us. It's easy to forget how spotty their record on PPV or TV (against other superstars, not jobbers) was in comparison to The Rockers who hardly EVER fucking won. For years, only Demolition then the LOD were babyface teams that won more than they lost against credible opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald J Trump Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 While WWF tag teams from the mid 90s and Owen Hart are the topic of discussion, is anyone aware of any hidden gems involving the short lived team of Owen Hart and Yokozuna? Aesthetically as a pairing, I loved them and I enjoyed watching them individually for very different reasons. Any matches that might not be obvious picks that are worth checking out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzero Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 11 minutes ago, Donald J Trump said: While WWF tag teams from the mid 90s and Owen Hart are the topic of discussion, is anyone aware of any hidden gems involving the short lived team of Owen Hart and Yokozuna? Aesthetically as a pairing, I loved them and I enjoyed watching them individually for very different reasons. Any matches that might not be obvious picks that are worth checking out? Yes I loved WWF in 95 bad gimmicks and all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 10 Paid Members Share Posted May 10 6 hours ago, Donald J Trump said: While WWF tag teams from the mid 90s and Owen Hart are the topic of discussion, is anyone aware of any hidden gems involving the short lived team of Owen Hart and Yokozuna? Aesthetically as a pairing, I loved them and I enjoyed watching them individually for very different reasons. Any matches that might not be obvious picks that are worth checking out? Depending how much Raw from 95 you got to see, plenty. Everyone probably remembers when they cost Bob Holly a match with Hakushi which spawned a six man tag involving Kid and Bret that made it to Coliseum Video, but there isn’t as much love visible for the tag title match Kid and Sparky earned for the win ; Into early summer they had two great matches with Razor & Savio, a run that went on the road and also had several taped at TVs that oddly never made Coliseum (which was slowly dying as a “thing” at the time). The first went off the air without a finish (criminal) - this is the rematch ; Finally, a real forgotten gem from a Superstars I posted not long ago to the YouTube thread. Post losing the tag titles and pre Kid turning, here’s Owen & Yoko vs Kid & Razor ; https://m.facebook.com/WeLoveYouOwen/videos/owenyokozuna-vs-razor-ramon-and-the-1-2-3-kid/1989998084459926/  Right at that moment the tag team was quietly dissolving as focus shifted to Davey Boy as (briefly) the star of Camp Cornette, and right before Owen got his HBK storyline and then Vader turned up to boot Yoko out altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members nfc90210 Posted May 11 Paid Members Share Posted May 11 Was Gary Steele any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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