The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[RedTwoster]

47 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

So what? If your first instinct, when you first saw / heard about this, was to make a zinger or to pat yourself on the back that you were right all along or both of these things then you're not the advocate or the ally that you may or may not have thought you were.

Sorry if anyone thinks I'm coming across as self-righteous here but I don't give a shit. The reaction to this has been sadly predictable. Not just on here, in fairness, but in all the usual places. We should be thinking and talking about all those trans wrestling fans or those who are carers, loved ones or relatives of trans wrestling fans. Seeing one of the biggest names in the business throw himself wholeheartedly behind them and actually talk eloquently and believably on the subject, making their voices heard in a business that has consistently been one of the most problematic when it comes to LGBTQ+ rights. It was HUGE. It even mattered to my son and he doesn't give the slightest shit about wrestling.

And now this. We all risk looking silly if this is going to be swerved but the fact is that there are many people who are not going to be relieved or happy in the unlikely event that happens. That is one of the many reasons we need to continue talking about what real allyship and advocacy is.

This is precisely why I’m disappointed about this, I think. I’ve always liked and defended Punk and appreciated his advocacy for causes that matter to me. He’s flawed of course, but he always struck me as sincere.

I do think, though, that going back on your principles lessens the impact of everything else you say you believe. The far right are very keen to crow about ‘virtue-signalling’ or to weaponise perceived hypocrisy and failings to lessen the impact of allyship. It’s not always fair, but it happens and it means the actions of a high profile ally matter.

I really hope that this match does not go ahead - maybe Punk will backtrack to offer up the match to Ron Killings, or maybe there will be an injury angle or something. I completely acknowledge that I might be being unfair to Punk, but I’ll feel very disappointed if this match goes ahead. 

 

[theringmaster]

4 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

In the context of the rest of my post I can see why someone might think that, but no. She's recently been very vocal about her support for kids in Palestine.

Phew!

I remember my wife being annoyed finding out her and her husband met at church cuz she was like 'American + Christian= trouble' ?

 

Back to Punk, i don't know how many times I have seen that pic of him holding the support trans kids banner at a show across socials, he also has worn the trans flag colours on several of his gear/merch. I never was a Punk fan so I'm hardly bothered by it, sadly i fall into the 'saw it coming' camp (but i don't feel the need to brag about that or anything) but i do understand how upsetting this would be for some, His fanbase is very left leaning.

[LaGoosh]

13 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

He’s flawed of course, but he always struck me as sincere.

I think that is what is causing the wide range of reactions. People who are disappointed now and people who were disappointed by him years ago and can only laugh at how predictable and sad this is. Punk knows what he's said in the past and knows how it's going to look but the fact that he doesn't give a shit at all kind of tells you everything about the man and his real politics. But like he told us on that first night back on Raw - "I'm here to make money".

Edited June 10, 2025 by LaGoosh

[SuperBacon]

7 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

I completely acknowledge that I might be being unfair to Punk, but I’ll feel very disappointed if this match goes ahead. 

 

I don't think that's being unfair on him. He has held himself up on a pedestal for years (not really a criticism) and so it's justified that you might have higher expectations for him.

[TAFKA Jonny Vegas]

Thing is Cena offering Punk the title match...but only in Saudi Arabia *could* have actually been masterful story telling.

Punk has called Cena a hypocrite and a piece of shit for turning his back on everything and all the people he stood for, for 20 years and then Cena offers Punk a look at his own reflection in the mirror by essentially offering him the exact same dilemma Cena, himself faced.

You want this title and you want to take it from me...well I will hand that opportunity to you...but you're going to need to accept that the price is the very thing you hate me for.

After Punk's repeated public support for LGBTQ+ rights and for one example off the top of my head his "go suck a blood covered Saudi dick" tweet to Miz, Cena is absolutely right - there is no justifiable or reasonable excuse for Punk to go back on his morals other than for selfish, personal gain and him now accepting publicly that is more important to him than his morals are.

Problem is, they really cant make it into that, as I can't see the Saudi's being over the moon with a few weeks of RAW on Netflix where Punk turns down that opportunity as he says (100% true) negative things on live worldwide TV about them.

Once again in my opinion it's just absolutely bizarre booking in the two biggest segments of the show.

Only way to fix Jey Uso situation now is have him win it back on RAW the Monday after Gunther/Goldberg.

 

Edited June 10, 2025 by TAFKA Jonny Vegas

[LaGoosh]

1 minute ago, TAFKA Jonny Vegas said:

Thing is Cena offering Punk the title match...but only in Saudi Arabia *could* have actually been masterful story telling.

Punk has called Cena a hypocrite and a piece of shit for turning his back on everything and all the people he stood for, for 20 years and then Cena offers Punk a look at his own reflection in the mirror by essentially offering him the exact same dilemma Cena, himself faced.

You want this title and you want to take it from me...well I will hand that opportunity to you...but you're going to need to accept that the price is the very thing you hate me for.

After his repeated public support for LGBTQ+ rights and for one example off the top of my head his "go suck a blood covered Saudi dick" tweet to Miz, Cena is absolutely right.

I don't know how you could even turn that into a TV storyline without making the entire company, CM Punk and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia look completely terrible. How would the live fans even be expected to react to that story? I have no idea.

[theringmaster]

I don't see this as being a 'swerve', even in the most 'Triple H playing 4D chess' world, if they have Punk turn this down on moral grounds, they are essentially admitting the whole Saudi show is immorally wrong.

[tiger_rick]

1 hour ago, Devon Malcolm said:

Sorry if anyone thinks I'm coming across as self-righteous here but I don't give a shit. The reaction to this has been sadly predictable. Not just on here, in fairness, but in all the usual places. We should be thinking and talking about all those trans wrestling fans or those who are carers, loved ones or relatives of trans wrestling fans. Seeing one of the biggest names in the business throw himself wholeheartedly behind them and actually talk eloquently and believably on the subject, making their voices heard in a business that has consistently been one of the most problematic when it comes to LGBTQ+ rights. It was HUGE. It even mattered to my son and he doesn't give the slightest shit about wrestling.

This was what my comment about Jordan Henderson referred to.

I didn't go in harder because I don't think it's announced yet, so I'd look stupid (more stupid than usual) and because I'm not remotely surprised. Unlike Jordan Henderson - who I thought was a fantastic example, a socially aware young man who did great work in his community and in the wider football world and left me unbelievably disappointed when he sold the people who believed he was on their side down the river - I don't believe in anything CM Punk says or does. I have done, and I'd like to, but he's just another worker in a horrible business.

I am sorry for those who genuinely believe in him as an ally and a representative. Dev is absolutely right to call that out. This maybe isn't the thread for it but he's absolutely right to point out that our sympathy for the people he's letting down should be more prevalent than any sense of being right that he's a prick. 

[tiger_rick]

.

Edited June 10, 2025 by tiger_rick

[RedTwoster]

17 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I don't know how you could even turn that into a TV storyline without making the entire company, CM Punk and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia look completely terrible. How would the live fans even be expected to react to that story? I have no idea.

I mean, there’s zero chance that they’ll want to point anyone in the direction of the ‘blood money-covered duck’ comment, but I suppose it’s possible that they’d run an injury angle or something. They’re a bunch of weirdos, and there are absolutely people in that company who would get a kick out of provoking a negative reaction to the idea of Punk wrestling in Saudi Arabia before pulling back on it. 

 

[Chili]

Glad to see people find these Saudi blood money shows utterly shit and disgusting. I got the vibe that so many years of it has lead people to get complacent or not that bothered, you know the aim of sports washing, so nice to see it's still viewed as an exercise in PR bullshit.

[Devon Malcolm]

54 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

I mean, there’s zero chance that they’ll want to point anyone in the direction of the ‘blood money-covered duck’ comment, but I suppose it’s possible that they’d run an injury angle or something. They’re a bunch of weirdos, and there are absolutely people in that company who would get a kick out of provoking a negative reaction to the idea of Punk wrestling in Saudi Arabia before pulling back on it. 

Even if it's a swerve or that's how they play it out, a lot of damage has already been done as far as Punk's concerned. Because he's chosen to participate in an angle that is making light of a serious real world comment he made and a stance that he has taken since then. He's angered and disappointed a lot of people in the process and for many of them, he won't be able to put that genie back in the bottle. 

[Snitsky's back acne]

I was instantly reminded on RVD refusing to go to Iraq when the Punk/Cena match was announced.

I remember him saying that another wrestler came up to him and said that he wished he could say no.

Rob's apparently response? 

'I don't have it written in my contract that I have balls'

 

 

[tiger_rick]

1 hour ago, Chili said:

Glad to see people find these Saudi blood money shows utterly shit and disgusting. I got the vibe that so many years of it has lead people to get complacent or not that bothered, you know the aim of sports washing, so nice to see it's still viewed as an exercise in PR bullshit.

Unfortunately, that's what happens. That's what they're relying on. I watched an excellent video on PSG's CL win which talked a lot about the "success" of the sports washing. Went fairly hard on Rio Ferdinand for calling it "a victory for football". He's someone who's taken the Qatari and Saudi money and gone from actively tweeting his disgust at a winter World Cup in the desert to batting for both. And to be fair to the dense cunt, he wasn't alone in his praise of PSG. 

Not to dig anyone out individually - and nor am I trying to say I'm right about everything either - but when I was giving WWE a kick-in a while ago, several people on here were of the opinion that because Saudi money and endorsement is everywhere that it's not fair to criticise WWE for doing what everyone else does. I get that people like it but that's absolutely the aim of the relationship. Same as owning Newcastle United and the pro-Golf tour and everything else. Bit by bit, it feels like a losing battle and people give up. That is what they want.

[air_raid]

5 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Fair that they tried to tell a story of him being overworked or whatever.

You know,  I believed it when Mean Gene told me that Bret had defended the title against The Mountie, The Berzerker, The Model, Papa Shango and Virgil all in the six weeks since he won the WWF title. I don't believe it when Jey was literally only wrestling his 6th match in the near 2 months since Mania.

Every fucker is part time these days. Why is there so little wrestling actually happening in the wrestling?