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The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...


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1 hour ago, tiger_rick said:

I can't imagine anyone sitting down to watch this.

Do you think there'll be kids now who, in 20 years, will be looking for this on the WWE Network and decrying that things aren't like they were in the good old days of 2021?

Just watched the segment myself. Surely most are only tuning in out of habit these days, they can't actually take any enjoyment out of this?!

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I had a quick go of Thunderdome tonight. It’s pretty much exactly the same as watching the show normally, only with the added bonus of being so distracted trying to find yourself in the crowd that thi

Collectively, they sound like a verse from Red Hot Chili Peppers’ By The Way. What an odd choice.

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2 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

Do you think there'll be kids now who, in 20 years, will be looking for this on the WWE Network and decrying that things aren't like they were in the good old days of 2021?

Just watched the segment myself. Surely most are only tuning in out of habit these days, they can't actually take any enjoyment out of this?!

I enjoyed how bad it was, watching Bernard from the santa clause trying to stop his kilt from dropping because he was clearly method acting and had nothing on underneath is a sentence I never thought I'd write..... 

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6 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

Do you think there'll be kids now who, in 20 years, will be looking for this on the WWE Network and decrying that things aren't like they were in the good old days of 2021?

Just watched the segment myself. Surely most are only tuning in out of habit these days, they can't actually take any enjoyment out of this?!

I'm not sure a lot of kids watch now. But there may be. Especially as it just keeps getting worse. I've been watching the PPVs of 2009 that I can get hold of. I'd lost interest back then but watching it now it's like peak 2000 by comparison.

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12 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

I'm not sure a lot of kids watch now. But there may be. Especially as it just keeps getting worse. I've been watching the PPVs of 2009 that I can get hold of. I'd lost interest back then but watching it now it's like peak 2000 by comparison.

I'm slightly fascinated by how older wrestling years improve in time like that. I'm not even sure can you call it nostalgia if you didn't enjoy it all that much at the time. The Ruthless Aggression era got that treatment first for me, around 2009/2010. I perceived that a creative downturn certainly occurred, sure,  but I suddenly started appreciating 2002 and 2003 as being pretty much part of the Attitude Era and a still very loudly ringing echo of the heights wrestling enjoyed. 

I guess it's 2008 and ons turn now. I think the CM Punk and Daniel Bryan/road to WrestleMania XXX and launch of the Network stuff has always been perceived as good but for a few years before that, WWE was 'shit'. Have a look at the WrestleMania card in 2010, though. The scope for excitement going in to it, at least. HBK/Taker, Vince/Hart, Cena/Batista, Jericho/Edge. I was buzzing for that.

You'd think I'd learn by now - given that poisonous inability to enjoy what is current versus older content that permeates with so much of us - but I can't for the life of me imagine watching back much from the last few years in the future. 

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Any the networks Instagram page posts something for 2015 for example you see loads of comments of the "good old days/better back then", not denying it probably was but at the time fans were probably shitting on it and longed for 2008 or whenever.

Rose tinted glasses will always exist, and also things will be linked to how your life was and memories of that time.

Even if 2020 product was fantastic, personal feelings and memories towards this time are most like negative.

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I'm sure there is nostalgia. But every time you go back 5 years, you'll find another million people, and the rest, who no longer watch regularly. It's easy to dismiss that just because wrestling fans are whining bastards by their very nature. Take emotion out of it. The facts are there for all to see.

That Vince McMahon got USA and Fox to pay more for it is evidence that, yes, he absolutely is an evil genius.

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13 minutes ago, Gay as FOOK said:

I'm slightly fascinated by how older wrestling years improve in time like that. I'm not even sure can you call it nostalgia if you didn't enjoy it all that much at the time. The Ruthless Aggression era got that treatment first for me, around 2009/2010. I perceived that a creative downturn certainly occurred, sure,  but I suddenly started appreciating 2002 and 2003 as being pretty much part of the Attitude Era and a still very loudly ringing echo of the heights wrestling enjoyed. 

There's a lot to say for that to be fair.

I remember being massively down on the WWF in 2002-2004 "Where have all the proper stars gone?" "JBL as champion? Fuck right off" etc. I was never even a fan of Benoit and Guerrero as everyone else seemed to be at the time, always deeming them as good hands in the midcard but offering nothing more.

Edge as a supposed world champion took the fucking biscuit.

And yet, I stumbled across a Youtube compilation of Guerrero 'cheating' during his WWF run and was grinning like a cheshire cat all the way through the 10 minute clip like it was my favourite period ever. I bet if I watched WM20 now I'd think it was a marvellous era.

 

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I've definitely watched some 2005-2010 stuff recently that, at the time, I'd have been miserable about, but found myself really enjoying. The crowds are better, and cards that seemed lacking then feel positively star-studded now. 

I don't think it's just the slow trudge toward mediocrity, though. There's a nostalgia element, for sure, but also that by cherry-picking old shows you're not really all that bothered about creative direction, who wins or loses, or where a story might be going. I hated the Vince vs. Bret match when it actually happened, but found it fun if overlong when watching it recently. I remember thinking Sting vs. Triple H at Wrestlemania was the biggest, most ridiculous creative misstep going, but now love it for its absurdity. Being removed from all that second-guessing the booking, or following it week-to-week, or just giving a shit in general means that even the shit stuff can be enjoyable. It's why I really enjoy watching latter day WCW now, but it was infuriating at the time - because none of it matters any more.

But also, there's this sense when watching old stuff of shows being more star-studded than they really were. Because if someone was in the midcard then, but has since risen to the main event, you still kind of process them as a big deal watching the old stuff. So going back and watching, say, the 2013 Royal Rumble and seeing Cody Rhodes, Kofi Kingston, Drew McIntyre and Daniel Bryan - they might have all been relative scrubs then, but they sort of feel bigger retroactively now because their careers went in more positive directions. Even watching the older stuff, you kind of allow them the goodwill they've built up since.

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3 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

There's a lot to say for that to be fair.

I remember being massively down on the WWF in 2002-2004 "Where have all the proper stars gone?" "JBL as champion? Fuck right off" etc. I was never even a fan of Benoit and Guerrero as everyone else seemed to be at the time, always deeming them as good hands in the midcard but offering nothing more.

Edge as a supposed world champion took the fucking biscuit.

And yet, I stumbled across a Youtube compilation of Guerrero 'cheating' during his WWF run and was grinning like a cheshire cat all the way through the 10 minute clip like it was my favourite period ever. I bet if I watched WM20 now I'd think it was a marvellous era.

 

I think a lot of this is also down to the fact that back in those days, a lot of us were expecting/hoping for WWE to blossom into its pre 2002 height again. Vince would call the business 'cyclical' in conference calls, Powerslam would have an article every other month about where the next boom could come from. It was Carlito for a bit. It took years for people to get over this. Some people still haven't. So you were constantly holding a lot of very decent periods to weird standards trapped in the past. For all intents and purposes, WWE was hot for a lot of 2005-2010. I'm not sure a lot of people appreciate that even now. 

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The only highlight of the show was Randy Orton wearing The Destroyer mask. Can we have Randy giving out in matches like Destroyer always did when wrestling in Japan 

Peyton Royce is just terrible. Billie Kay might be rubbish in the ring too but at least she makes me laugh with her ott personality. Peyton is just terrible at everything 

After Matt Riddle sold Lashley stomping on his foot despite Bobby being nowhere near it, is his new gimmick that he's Jack Grealish. 

If the WrestleMania announcement was supposed to get mainstream buzz it shows how out of touch the decision makers actually are. 

The only payoff that is borderline acceptable after The Dirt sheet is Goldberg literally spearing Miz in half

The camera cuts actually made the awesome finish to Ricochet/Styles look ordinary 

This Alexa nonsense is what happens when you have the writers look online and see the Alexa/Sister Abigial fan fiction rubbish 

Garbage show. 

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2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

 

I don't think it's just the slow trudge toward mediocrity, though. There's a nostalgia element, for sure, but also that by cherry-picking old shows you're not really all that bothered about creative direction, who wins or loses, or where a story might be going. I hated the Vince vs. Bret match when it actually happened, but found it fun if overlong when watching it recently. I remember thinking Sting vs. Triple H at Wrestlemania was the biggest, most ridiculous creative misstep going, but now love it for its absurdity. Being removed from all that second-guessing the booking, or following it week-to-week, or just giving a shit in general means that even the shit stuff can be enjoyable. It's why I really enjoy watching latter day WCW now, but it was infuriating at the time - because none of it matters any more.

 

This is a fantastic post and something I've felt for a while but just never been able to put into words. Going back and watching old wrestling, we know where everything is going and where everyone ends up. We don't have to worry about booking decisions, people being held down and things not making sense.

As wrestling fans, we don't afford ourselves the luxury of enjoying current stuff nearly as much because we're all so caught up in 'where is this going?' 'They're going to fuck this up arn't they?' 'Why isn't Johnny Kickpads getting this win?' It's why judging current wrestling next to older stuff isn't really fair, because the older stuff doesn't come with the baggage of second-guessing everything.

Saying that though, Raw is fucking dogshit at the moment.

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This is the worst wrestling show I’ve ever seen. I didn’t think it would ever get as bad as late wcw, but it did. Then I thought, well at least there’s 95 wwf. Nope, that was better. All TNA was better. Current Raw is the worst proper wrestling tv show there’s ever been. I’d rather watch WSX.

Whats frustrating is that, whilst 99% of the shows are the dirt worst, all the stuff with Roman is fantastic so I know they CAN do some good stuff. Orton and Edge was fabulous too. 

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1 hour ago, Yakashi said:

This is the worst wrestling show I’ve ever seen.

I genuinely can't tell if you're a gimmick or really hate WWE that much. It's strange.

Anyway if it was the worst wrestling show you've ever seen then you've got off lightly over the years.

I had it on this afternoon and it's just so strange how much talent is there and how badly they're getting used. Even Riddle has his up side, despite him being a bit of a twat.

But yeah it's shows like this that I can't argue against when people say WWE lost their way. Having a talent pool like that on Raw and managing to deliver something that rubbish is quite the talent.

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34 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

I genuinely can't tell if you're a gimmick or really hate WWE that much. It's strange.

Anyway if it was the worst wrestling show you've ever seen then you've got off lightly over the years.

I had it on this afternoon and it's just so strange how much talent is there and how badly they're getting used. Even Riddle has his up side, despite him being a bit of a twat.

But yeah it's shows like this that I can't argue against when people say WWE lost their way. Having a talent pool like that on Raw and managing to deliver something that rubbish is quite the talent.

I was originally just going to tell you to fuck off but I’ll try and be more civil.

WWE is in the toilet. It is regularly doing record low ratings. As in, the worst of all time. It has never been less popular and has never turned off more people in such a short space of time. If it wasn’t for old people they’d be completely fucked because hardly anyone under 50 can tolerate them. Once those oldies die or move on, they are dead because they aren’t growing an audience and young people won’t watch their show.

And it’s happened because their shows are absolutely shit. Millions of people don’t just stop watching in the space of a few years by accident.

So, if someone says that the shows are terrible then maybe, just maybe, it’s not a gimmick because, you know, there can’t be millions and millions of gimmicks causing their ratings to fall into the shitter.

I find it strange you defend them and get so upset when people criticise, but I’m not going to start calling you names.

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