Wrestling #MeToo #SpeakingOut

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

3 hours ago, Michael_3165 said:

I don't trust half of these people to do the right thing. 

And I don't trust the other half. 

[BomberPat]

It's absolutely heartbreaking that Millie McKenzie has become the figurehead of this. That's not overlooking how brave she's been to talk out, how important that is, or how well she's carried herself - it's just profoundly depressing that somehow who's only just turned 20 can have multiple harrowing stories of abuse within the industry, and can be in a position to advise younger talent on who best to avoid and so on. Someone in the industry once described her to me as "BritWres' little sister", and how absolutely anyone they knew would stand up for her against anyone who tried to do her wrong, and the whole corrupt broken scene has just utterly failed her and robbed her of her formative years. 

Anyone not booking Millie now because of this - I fucking welcome them to. Because they may as well be wearing "I'm A Wrong'Un" placards hung around their neck, and the more obvious these people can make themselves to others, the better. I once had a conversation with a female wrestler who was complaining about how a certain promoter wouldn't book her because she wasn't "fuckable", and I pointed out that she wouldn't want to work for that guy anyway - one of the things that Equity et al should be looking at resolving is protecting workers from the "a booking is a booking" mentality that leads them to work for dodgy promoters even when they already know they're dodgy promoters. 

[TheSurgeon]

I suppose it was only a matter of time before these type of things started appearing, this one has been started by Erin Angel.

I wonder how many will sign up? Do you get a wristband?

Pro Wrestling Association

[Your Fight Site]

©2018?! 😕

[TheSurgeon]

24 minutes ago, Your Fight Site said:

©2018?! 😕

Yeah, apparently she had the idea when the last wave of abusers were found out in 2018, and didn't do anything. But has decided to start it up again now.

[Michael_3165]

Whilst a body makes sense there's a few questions that spring to mind. 

1. Does it have teeth? 

2. What would a promoter, trainer or worker gain from having membership? 

Paying to say you are under their banner is all well and good but if that banner means little in practice, what is the point? If a person behaves badly what care they going to do? 

A body like that needs a code of conduct and must be adopted by all individuals and groups in the industry. Otherwise people will just ditch it and produce shows regardless. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Michael_3165

[BomberPat]

From the sounds of things, it's about having a kitemark that's a kind of internal badge of abiding by certain standards - it's opt-in, rather than regulatory.

It can't have any teeth, beyond that which its members allow it to have - and without actual regulation or union representation, I can't see a situation where a group of wrestlers will be able to say "we have your back if you choose not to work with Promoter X", or whatever.

If it's Erin Angel behind it, she's absolutely someone I think should be part of whatever solutions are being talked about it, but I don't think this is it. 

[CavemanLynn]

It's laudable that this is already appearing as an option, and like Pat says, it is the product of people you trust. But I'll wait to see which particular organisations, new or existing, are proposed or endorsed by the AAPG.

[BomberPat]

25 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said:

and like Pat says, it is the product of people you trust. 

Which, come to think of it, is part of the problem with this stuff - it shouldn't be reliant on knowing a guy who knows a guy who can tell you who the good ones are, because that's a large part of what got us into this mess in the first place. 

[truthofsin]

6 hours ago, TheSurgeon said:

I suppose it was only a matter of time before these type of things started appearing, this one has been started by Erin Angel.

I wonder how many will sign up? Do you get a wristband?

Pro Wrestling Association

I mean while i appreciate DBS checks would be a positive, as better than not having them, they wouldn't have prevented most of the abuse that has taken place. As for those to flag anyone they need to have something on their record, be it a charge, conviction, or investigation. To the best oy knowledge Ligero, one of the worst, didn't have any such things on his record and would not have been flagged at all. Same with David Starr i believe. A check every 3 years is hardly protecting anyone either, what if someone gets accused of something and police investigate, but bring no charges, a month into their membership to this? That's 2 years and 11 months left of having this membership and it not getting flagged. I appreciate people trying for a safer workplace, and DBS checks ae useful. But basing the whole 'safer environment' around something like this, or the Wrestling CRB thing TNT Wrestling are now saying they are using, isn't nearly enough.

Edited September 29, 2020 by truthofsin

[Cod Eye]

It's the money aspect that I think will spoil any chance of a scheme like Erin Angel's taking off. For every well meaning scheme that is put together, there will be four or five that pops up run by the usual leeches that feed off British wrestling that re there simply to squeeze money out of the wrestlers and promoters on the scene, similar to the arm band bollocks that was floating around a few years ago.

If they are going to charge the sort of money mentioned on that website, it needs to be truly independent and non-profit, and have it state exactly where the money that is generated will be spent and how it will benefit the members.

 

[Michael_3165]

42 minutes ago, Cod Eye said:

It's the money aspect that I think will spoil any chance of a scheme like Erin Angel's taking off. For every well meaning scheme that is put together, there will be four or five that pops up run by the usual leeches that feed off British wrestling that re there simply to squeeze money out of the wrestlers and promoters on the scene, similar to the arm band bollocks that was floating around a few years ago.

If they are going to charge the sort of money mentioned on that website, it needs to be truly independent and non-profit, and have it state exactly where the money that is generated will be spent and how it will benefit the members.

 

This. 

It needs to be clear where the money is going. 

[CavemanLynn]

DBS checks are an easy thing to implement, but no one's saying that's the be-all and end-all. We still have laws even though we know some people will still try to break them. It's all about creating an environment where the risk is greater than the reward when it comes to wannabe or active abusers. The more checks and balances there are, the harder it is to mask their activities, and the more avenues victims have for support. Of course, a DBS check won't catch everything. Anecdotal, but my work place is strict on legal checking due to our handling of secure data, but that didn't stop one bloke getting collared for psychologically abusing a co worker he was dating. When it came out, it then emerged he had done this with at least two other previous co workers, and three women outside of work. It only took one incident to be caught when the whole house of cards came crashing down around his ears.

I agree that any scheme involving subs needs to be made accountable for where the money goes and what the benefits are, beyond peace of mind for trainees and ticket buyers.

[AndiRush]

I think the Association/Governing Body gimmick is 50/50 in the sense of half want a genuine thing to succeed and the other half just want power and control. The one problem all 100% of attempts fail to understand is that it's quite a big responsibility to be 'the' association of a national industry. If things go wrong under your watch, you're held accountable for not enforcing or issuing guidance/rules etc. 

[Snitsky's back acne]

Have to agree that it's a laudable effort and definitely worth a try.
Problem is it's still regulated by someone with wrestling connections. In some respect that's a positive - she understands the business better than someone with no experience from the inside at all. Only issue is while I'm sure Erin is absolutely on the level and has the best of intentions, had, say, David Starr started this same thing 18 months ago likely the same thing would have been said about him
Also, much like the acting profession, there are those who will simply not want to pay to join a union, no matter what its supposed benefits are.
Again, definitely worth a try though. 
 
 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Snitsky's back acne