Wrestling #MeToo #SpeakingOut

[Linus]

The involvement of the union also complicates matters from the other side, too. If Ospreay joins Equity and someone tries to blackball him for what's been alleged (importantly without concrete proof), the union would have them for dinner. Unions protect their members and if someone raises a grievance against you they'd better have absolute proof of misconduct.

[LWOLeN]

Indy Wrestling is pretty much dead in the water. I don’t think ‘David Starr’ and those other guys have wrestling on their resume these days.

Nobody sane is going to hire him after googling’David Starr’ in a pandemic.

These guys pretty much ruined themselves.

[Keith Houchen]

31 minutes ago, Linus said:

The involvement of the union also complicates matters from the other side, too. If Ospreay joins Equity and someone tries to blackball him for what's been alleged (importantly without concrete proof), the union would have them for dinner. Unions protect their members and if someone raises a grievance against you they'd better have absolute proof of misconduct.

Only if he has a contract with a promotion. If he, or anyone else, is booked per show then it’s simply a matter of choosing not to hire him, which every promotion has the right to do. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LWOLeN said:

Indy Wrestling is pretty much dead in the water. I don’t think ‘David Starr’ and those other guys have wrestling on their resume these days.

Nobody sane is going to hire him after googling’David Starr’ in a pandemic.

These guys pretty much ruined themselves.

I don’t think Indy wrestling is. Your average family show that make up 90% of what happens in the uk aren’t on Twitter and go to shows based on posters around town and habit of having been before. Speaking out as barely made it onto Facebook never mind to a point where most shows will be affected. It’s quite sad really and shows how little wrestling really matters or is cared about in the real world 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Louch

[Snitsky's back acne]

16 hours ago, Louch said:

I don’t think Indy wrestling is. Your average family show that make up 90% of what happens in the uk aren’t on Twitter and go to shows based on posters around town and habit of having been before. Speaking out as barely made it onto Facebook never mind to a point where most shows will be affected. It’s quite sad really and shows how little wrestling really matters or is cared about in the real world 

Very good [and depressing] point.
Book a show with El Ligero [for example] at a leisure centre, stick his face on a poster and put 'wrestling' on it and there will still be people who go and see it because, whether we like it or not, as Louch pointed out, the majority of people who take their kids will not know, or care, about any allegations made against him. Plus, as I pointed out, there will always be those willing to work with him as long as they are on the show and/or get paid. Marks will always be marks. We are talking about a business where convicted paedophiles like Chasyn Rance still get bookings and people still advocate for Chris Benoit to go into the HoF because he may have murdered his wife and child but he was a 'really good wrestler'.

Equity has been involved in the acting world for a long time but that still hasn't stopped people working for free and being exploited in the hopes they 'get seen' or 'for the experience'. 

I respect the efforts and genuinely hope it achieves what people want it to achieve but the cynical side of me says we may see some 'change' short term but long term wrestling will remain the seedy, scummy, exploitative business it has always been. 

[CavemanLynn]

There is no magic bullet, or Big Brother solution. That wrestling is now recognised by these organisations and has governmental eyes on it is a massive step forward, but it's naive to think this alone will fix it. However, it's equally as bad to shrug and say "Ah well, nobody's going to click their fingers and sort out absolutely everyone involved in wrestling everywhere, so why bother?" Yes, casual families likely won't give a stuff; at best, if a promotion puts the talent's names on posters, parents might give them a casual Google, and THEN call it off, IF the kids don't kick up a stink. But I think it's pretty clear wrestling in this country survives on milking the diehard fanbase, and those diehards can help force change by refusing to support certain promotions either for their practices or booking reported offenders. There's only so much money you can make off filling the crowd with your mates. Realistically, if momentum keeps up, it'll be 5 to 10 years before we see a tangible difference in the business, if it's even still there after that time.

[Snitsky's back acne]

1 hour ago, CavemanLynn said:

I think it's pretty clear wrestling in this country survives on milking the diehard fanbase, and those diehards can help force change by refusing to support certain promotions either for their practices or booking reported offenders. There's only so much money you can make off filling the crowd with your mates. Realistically, if momentum keeps up, it'll be 5 to 10 years before we see a tangible difference in the business, if it's even still there after that time.

I don't agree wrestling survives [or survived] in this country milking the diehard fan base - wrestling at holiday camps and hotels were the most prolific and consistent source of work and income for a lot of wrestlers and they are wholly targeted to the casual fans and families. Yes, Rev Pro and others are more high profile but it's the off-the-radar shows that happened every day and don't get reported about online that are what did keep wrestling in this country afloat.

Yes 1000 diehard fans could boycott say, Progress [are they/were they still a thing?], once a month but the 1000 fans that pack Butlins Minehead twice a week every week 52 weeks a year will quickly cancel that out.
Yeah, if you're a wrestler you could refuse to work those shows if 'Dodgy Character A' is booked on it but then you're fucking yourself out of a lot of work/potential income too and, sadly, there are a lot less of those people around than I think we want to believe. 

It's absolutely worth a try and, as I said, I genuinely hope it succeeds and everyone gets what they wants.
I guess I've just been a wrestling fan too long and seen too many 'things need to change' incidents happen that I have come to expect the worst. 

 

[Guest]

As SBA says, the die hard Twitter super fans don’t make up as much of the audience at the majority of shows as they think. And many of the noisiest don’t go to as many shows as their online persona may suggest. Add in the attraction of seeing a show in your local town hall with no real travel and I can see the lower level indies doing great business when full building allow 

[WyattSheepMask]

Whether or not it’s been due to ongoing legal action, the story has finally made it onto the main page of BBC Sport -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54180329

Edited September 27, 2020 by WyattSheepMask

[Guest]

Even hardcore fans can't be relied upon to give a shit when it comes down to their own support of a show.

Case in point: this forum and WWE.

You won't find many more hardcore fans of wrestling than those who post here, who are consequently among the first to know about every grotesque scandal the McMahons are involved in. Fists will be shaken in a thirty page topic about each one. But the weekly Raw thread and "best things to watch on WWE Network" remain active.

I know I'm flogging a dead horse with that point but it seems relevant here. It's not just blissfully ignorant casuals who'll let scummy promoters off the hook.

[Mr Kennedy]

6 hours ago, WyattSheepMask said:

Whether or not it’s been due to ongoing legal action, the story has finally made it onto the main page of BBC Sport -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54180329

It was so angering and saddening to see  a lot of ‘professional wrestling isn’t a sport’ responses to the BBC Sport tweet about the article. I mean, the story is about sexual abuse and that’s their take from it. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Mr Kennedy

[Michael_3165]

44 minutes ago, Mr Kennedy said:

It was so angering and saddening to see  a lot of ‘professional wrestling isn’t a sport’ responses to the BBC Sport tweet about the article. I mean, the story is about sexual abuse and that’s their take from it. 

What's the betting McKenzie will get booked less because of this piece? Saffly, I wouldn't be at all surprised. 

[Tommy!]

7 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said:

What's the betting McKenzie will get booked less because of this piece?

Or the opposite, booking as a token for a "look how great we are" statement to try and avoid actually doing anything meaningful. 

[Guest]

Given Millie has a good stature in the scene, has been offered a wwe uk deal and works in Japan, she probably the best unsigned person to front such a piece and not be affected. 

[Michael_3165]

2 hours ago, Louch said:

Given Millie has a good stature in the scene, has been offered a wwe uk deal and works in Japan, she probably the best unsigned person to front such a piece and not be affected. 

Depends how much WWE want to associate w the whole story. I'm cynical when I say I'd imagine many promotes wouldn't want the hassle. Steering clear of anyone who may cause grief in the future. I may be a bit harsh but I don't trust half of these people to do the right thing.