Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted December 1, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, hallicks said: Apart from poor people, disabled people, homeless people, ethnic minorities, public sector workers, schools, the NHS, the environment, removing the threat of no deal Brexit... They're basically the same. While I agree. I believe the angle he was going for is that neither one of these are generally well regarded. Trump/Clinton from Americans I talked to, was a who do I hate more election. This has very similar shades of that. Even if Corbyn seems more popular in the real world rather then social media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Good job we have a parliamentary democracy and not a presidential one then, isn’t it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) Hills was the establishment candidate though, so it's kind of a mirror in that respect. Edit: what Keith said. Edited December 1, 2019 by hallicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 4 hours ago, SuperBacon said: Don’t like the lefts spending plans, but like seeing the vulnerable in society die. Got it. Do you really think this sort of attack is productive?  Will it change his mind, or persuade him to not vote Tory?  No, it's purely designed to make you feel better about yourself. We have a Tories are Cunts thread where you can all indulge in your super-partisan back-slapping, but it would be very nice, for everyone else, to have a thread where people can talk about the election without being made out to be a psychopath if you don't vote Labour.  God knows, I'm not a Conservative party supporter, but it does occur to me that Labour might not be quite so far behind in the polls if their supporters tried listening to people with different views rather than rounding them up for the old gulag train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 1, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 1, 2019 That was a Party Political Broadcast from the Liberal Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Good point well made @Loki fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 I think it's good of @quote the raven to be honest here, and I'm as guilty as anyone of being overly partisan at times. So let's talk about where you're at: 7 hours ago, quote the raven said:  I would be voting Lib Dem’s this time if they had not put a hard and fast revoke policy in. I think they're starting to realise what a mistake this was. Appeals to the Ian Dunts of the world, where remain is the only option and conveniently ignores everything that contributed to a leave victory. Completely alienates staunch leave voters and reasonable remainers, who think there should be a democratic process/mandate if the original result is to be overturned (let's leave the illegal spending/lying out for now). I'm in favour of 2nd ref FWIW. 7 hours ago, quote the raven said:  I don’t like the current lefts state owned spree they are planning, less so if they try and get it at less than market value. State ownership of utilities is not uncommon in Europe. Many of the UK rail franchises are owned by the state run rail companies of other countries - the Dutch, German, Italian, Hong Kong and French state all get a slice of our rail pie, the infrastructure of which is all paid for by the taxpayer anyway. The consequence is the highest rail prices in Europe. My season ticket will be pushing £5k next year. I think Labour's plan to nationalize trains is to let the franchises expire and then bring them into public ownership. The privatization of Royal Mail was actual robbery, as it was deliberately undervalued by George Osborne to make money for his pals. I'm sure the super rich will scream bloody murder regardless of what price Labour puts on bringing companies back into public ownership. 7 hours ago, quote the raven said: I think the current spending plans are way to ambitious and could lead to serious national debt in the future. We've had 9 years of the most swingeing cuts imaginable, real wages are now only just recovering to pre-crash levels, NHS is in a bad way, poverty...I'd argue the investments Labour want to make are largely just making up for the neglect of the past decade. They're investing in the people and infrastructure of this country. I don't know economics greatly but it seems like a healthy idea. 7 hours ago, quote the raven said: I will also say I’m very uneasy about voting for a party under investigation by the human rights commission. Fair enough. Corbyn was pretty open about this the other day. I'd say that at least Labour have admitted there has been a problem and have been willing to facilitate an investigation. I'm sure they'd abide by anything that comes out of it as well. Islamophobia in the tories, however - they're just not bothered. Lib Dems seem to have inherited some homophobia in their recent intake of soft tories, plus there's always Tim Farron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 18 hours ago, Joe Blog said: Can I ask why you support the Conservatives? Are you mega rich? Maybe he's old? Isn't that how it works? Stupid old people vote Tory while the smart, savvy youngsters of the day vote for Jezza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted December 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 2, 2019 Thanks all for toning down the replies. On hallicks points above. Ideal world to end this brexit mess is Johnsons deal vs remain on a ballot. I got no issues with that at all what ever way it worked out. I asked a few pages back if someone can explain how government bonds work as i dont know. my understanding is they will be issued for any short fall in the buy out of said utilities. Alot of people with private pensions probably have stock in them so im keen to see how it affects them. Spending on NHS and  infrastructure is needed you will get no argument from me on that. Any move from the NHS being free at the point of use will be the death of what ever party is stupid enough to try it. Should the US be able to offer us drugs or machines cheaper than we can buy them now we should listen. The amount of burrowing can lead to some bigger issues. A rise in interest rates being one of them. We have had record lows for so long that a few points could lead to homes being lost https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/1504/economics/problems-of-government-borrowing-2/ I should also add that if the tory party would have been in the same place as labour with the commission i would feel the same way towards them .  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted December 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, David said: Maybe he's old? Isn't that how it works? Stupid old people vote Tory while the smart, savvy youngsters of the day vote for Jezza? Just turning 41 is that old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just now, quote the raven said: Just turning 41 is that old? Probably. I'm a year younger and I feel fucking ancient when I listen to the yoof of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted December 2, 2019 Moderators Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, quote the raven said: Should the US be able to offer us drugs or machines cheaper than we can buy them now we should listen. The pharmaceutical industry lobbies very strongly in the US. Through a variety of means, they keep drug prices artificially high in the US. There was a lot of recent upset in Canada and Mexico as the recent North American trade deals have really weakened their local healthcare provisioning by trying to align to the US. The wording of the papers released by Corbyn indicate that the same things are what is on the table for us. Rather than 'privatising the NHS' what is happening is that they want to lock the NHS into a similar bad agreement. Whether the NHS is free at the point of use or not it will be more costly for our health care services, and ultimately really bad for the country. I don't know why they're parroting this privatisation line - it's misleading. Edited December 2, 2019 by Chest Rockwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted December 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: The pharmaceutical industry lobbies very strongly in the US. Through a variety of means, they keep drug prices artificially high in the US. There was a lot of recent upset in Canada and Mexico as the recent North American trade deals have really weakened their local healthcare provisioning by trying to align to the US. The wording of the papers released by Corbyn indicate that the same things are what is on the table for us. Rather than 'privatising the NHS' what is happening is that they want to lock the NHS into a similar bad agreement. Whether the NHS is free at the point of use or not it will be more costly for our health care services, and ultimately really bad for the country. I don't know why they're parroting this privatisation line - it's misleading. Johnson claimed on LBC he would get up and walk away if they tried to force that on us.......he also claimed he would die in a ditch and seems to be alive and well..... Any trade deal with the US will suit the US i think that much is clear. My hope is we have a free trade deal with the EU at the time of negations at least that gives some form of leeway.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted December 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 2, 2019 IF Johnson does remain PM, his relationship with Trump means he won't walk away. Trump has already stated how he is championing a Johnson/Farage coalition and it should be pretty obvious why. If we leave with no deal, the US will have us right where they want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Everything will continue on its current outsourcing trend, until eventually the NHS will just be an umbrella term for all the privately operated healthcare that happens under its name. Something I read about a while ago was the tendering out of a health contract, where the local health authority could still bid, but they were obviously undercut by a private bidder, in this case, Virgin. The Virgin bid was unrealistic, but it didn't matter when this was pointed out, they still won the contract. And then, when it turned out that actually, they had undershot, they just got extra money from the government anyway to carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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