deathrey Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) I totally agree with you Carbomb but it does depend on who is teaching it, my first exposure to Empire made it sound like it was amazing (that was by a patriotic History teacher at school), I then went away and did my own research and only when I started searching on the internet and talked to my dad about it did I get a proper idea of the atrocities that went on. Luckily I'm a well balanced individual so it didn't bend my views too much but for a short amount of time I was a very angry teenager who throughly resented the country she lived in. Edited November 14, 2018 by deathrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsfromlee Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Plus theres a hell of a lot of history to fit into an hour long lesson once a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted November 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 14, 2018 I would imagine the only exposure you get as a student of the atrocities committed by this country would be if you studied history at University. There's no way the school syllabuses cover this, it's propaganda really. Other than covering Henry VIII killing off his wives because they couldn't give them a son, but even then they fluff it up by giving you a nice song to help you remember his dead wives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathrey Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 I'll have to ask some of the history teachers at school if it's taught at degree level. I know they don't touch it at A-Level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted November 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, deathrey said: I totally agree with you Carbomb but it does depend on who is teaching it, my first exposure to Empire made it sound like it was amazing (that was by a patriotic History teacher at school), I then went away and did my own research and only when I started searching on the internet and talked to my dad about it did I get a proper idea of the atrocities that went on. Luckily I'm a well balanced individual so it didn't bend my views too much but for a short amount of time I was a very angry teenager who throughly resented the country she lived in. I can understand that. The main reason I mentioned Amritsar is that I figured it'd be one of the first things you'd have been told about, given your Sikh heritage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathrey Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) Probably more partition to be honest. My mum's family were Sikhs living in what is now Pakistan so they literally had to run for their lives leaving everything behind. My paternal grandad sneaked a lot of Muslim families out of our village and gave them safe (as possible) passage to Pakistan at great risk to himself and his family, it was a horrific time. The Amritsar massacre was in my lifetime but the roots of it very much lie in partition and the Empire, that has it's own lasting effect on me. Edited November 14, 2018 by deathrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted November 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 14, 2018 @deathrey interesting to read, your grandad sounds like a real hero. Did you watch Doctor Who at the weekend? Based on the partition. I didn't watch it properly but my wife is really into it so I caught bits of it in the background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathrey Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 My grandma who passed away last month had some amazing stories, she was 102 so she was like living history. Her stories of British soldiers in her village were fascinating. I wish I had recorded some of her stories. I didn't watch it, but as I'm struggling for things to do on my sick leave, I'll find it on I-player today. Thanks @PunkStep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ReturnOfTheMack Posted November 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 14, 2018 At school we were taught, admittedly not in great detail, about the slave trade. That would have been about 1994ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathrey Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) We were taught it, but in English not History - we read a book about the underground railway, I can't remember what it was called now. All teaching was from an American point of view though, they only touched upon England's contribution saying that we were involved as shipping port and just completely ignored the rest of it! Edited November 14, 2018 by deathrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 With this Brexit deal being tabled, right wingers are saying that the UK will be a colony state. They also bleat on about Empire being great days. Colonialism summed up right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted November 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: With this Brexit deal being tabled, right wingers are saying that the UK will be a colony state. They also bleat on about Empire being great days. Colonialism summed up right there. A big part of this is because we're the only former overseas imperial power that hasn't had some massive slap-down as a wake-up call. Germany has had two massive ones, particularly the second. Italy's sort of had one, but still has problems because they didn't really have much to be slapped down from in the first place (and they don't like to remember they got their arses kicked by a bunch of Africans). Spain's empire collapsed quite spectacularly during the imperial age, and Portugal and the Netherlands were never really allowed to forget that they had their empires on sufferance by the big boys. Belgium has slipped under the radar, but their empire was similar to Portugal's and the Netherlands'. Japan probably got the biggest slap-down ever. The nearest the UK's ever really come to being slapped down is the Suez Crisis. Most of the time, though, we've been on the winning sides of the biggest conflicts, so we've never really had to think about things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Carbomb said: A big part of this is because we're the only former overseas imperial power that hasn't had some massive slap-down as a wake-up call. Germany has had two massive ones, particularly the second. Italy's sort of had one, but still has problems because they didn't really have much to be slapped down from in the first place (and they don't like to remember they got their arses kicked by a bunch of Africans). Spain's empire collapsed quite spectacularly during the imperial age, and Portugal and the Netherlands were never really allowed to forget that they had their empires on sufferance by the big boys. Belgium has slipped under the radar, but their empire was similar to Portugal's and the Netherlands'. Japan probably got the biggest slap-down ever. The nearest the UK's ever really come to being slapped down is the Suez Crisis. Most of the time, though, we've been on the winning sides of the biggest conflicts, so we've never really had to think about things. This is one of two reasons why England haven't won a football World Cup for decades. There is a Victorian mindset in our culture that hasn't had a catharsis. As you say, every Empire has had a period of reflection after losing it and understanding what they did was wrong. England seems to have this view of "We gave them civilisation and then left them to it". No, you got run out. That "British by birth, English by the grace of God" mindset of a divine right to rule is possibly the most damaging thing about our culture. When Slaven Bilic said that Fabio Capello would "Slap the Englishness out of the players", that's exactly what he meant. The Peoples History Museum in Manchester is top of the list of places I advise people to visit when they're here. The Peterloo massacre should be taught in schools. Edited November 14, 2018 by Keith Houchen England HAVE won a world cup, missed the decades bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted November 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: This is one of two reasons why England haven't won a football World Cup for decades. There is a Victorian mindset in our culture that hasn't had a catharsis. As you say, every Empire has had a period of reflection after losing it and understanding what they did was wrong. England seems to have this view of "We gave them civilisation and then left them to it". No, you got run out. That "British by birth, English by the grace of God" mindset of a divine right to rule is possibly the most damaging thing about our culture. When Slaven Bilic said that Fabio Capello would "Slap the Englishness out of the players", that's exactly what he meant. I've never posted this on the football thread, because I knew it would make me more hated than Hulkamania Fan, but I firmly believe that if there'd been a fucking UK team from the start, instead of separate country teams, we'd have won way more trophies by now, and not just in football. Too late now, of course, but I think it's symbolic of what you describe above - it's not a cause in and of itself, but it's one of a whole host of stupid, divisive things that the establishment in this country treasures, for some reason. I'm not surprised that so many people in Scotland and Wales don't feel like they're really part of a United Kingdom. 6 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: The Peoples History Museum in Manchester is top of the list of places I advise people to visit when they're here. The Peterloo massacre should be taught in schools. I will, most certainly. Working class history is very much in my family's tradition - my great-uncle wrote a number of excellent books, one of which he wrote in the 80s about the Peterloo Massacre. Will try and take a picture of our copy and post it on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted November 14, 2018 Awards Moderator Share Posted November 14, 2018 27 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: The Peoples History Museum in Manchester is top of the list of places I advise people to visit when they're here. The Peterloo massacre should be taught in schools. Maybe my school was unusual but they did teach us the Peterloo massacre in schools. We spent half a year on 19th century British politics. Great Reform Act, chartism, Corn Laws and Peterloo were all major parts of that. I assumed it was part of the curriculum but so many people have never heard of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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