The Official UKFF RAW Thread...

[PowerButchi]

 

Getting signed to a big contract isn't Lesnar playing by his own rules, it's Vince seeing money in a 300 pound super athlete.

Lesnar played WCW and the WWF for a big contract. Something many super athletes never did over the years. They certainly never offered him $250,000 a year based on the fact he was a super athlete. They did it because he knew his value and had leverage. He could have easily went elsewhere.

 

 

 

Yup, ditto Goldberg. Pre signing for WCW Eric Bischoff fucked him around on the phone in late 96 or whatever and he phoned Terry Taylor and said "Fuck you, I'm calling Vince", spoke to Titan on the phone, and Easy E called right back and gave him a far better deal than he should have had even before his first match. Real commodities know what they are from year dot.

[Dirty Eddie]

You can't really directly compare the attitude or "testicular fortitude" of the stars from the peak competition years to today's WWE guys. Unless you are an absolute freak like Lesnar or someone who has previous name value (Del Rio was a pretty big star in Mexico pre-WWE from what I understand) there is nowhere to go if you fuck up in WWE. With red-hot competition - with both sides splashing the cash, anyone with any worth has at least some bargaining leverage. Big stars have a ton.

 

Sting could ask for whatever we wanted from WCW because he'd (I assume) have a tasty offer waiting for him if he ever decided to call the WWF in the 1990-2000 time period. He chose to be a company man because it obviously made business sense. 

 

WWE roster members in 2015 have the options of...

 

A) shut-up, do what they are told and hope to get a fair crack and a decent push if they stay loyal.

 

or

 

B) try and take something of a stand when they get offered crappy roles and hope that management see's their true talent and self-confidence and gives them what they want.

 

Trying option B might end up with you getting jobbed out, humiliated on TV and fired though, so think carefully.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I'd say now more than ever, the market is perfect for wrestlers to take a stand. Whether its the UK or Japan or US indies (not forgetting the merch you can sell), there is so much work for guys. AJ Styles is on anywhere from $350-500,000 depending on who you believe. Either way he's killing it. And he's someone with only a shitty TNA name to go with. If Dolph Ziggler threatened to leave (with his indy wank rep), he'd probably cover his WWE downside by the t-shirts he'd sell at the gimmick table. John Morrison has had chances to go back, and he simply hasn't wanted to.

Edited January 21, 2015 by IANdrewDiceClay

[King Pitcos]

Could imagine Ziggler making an absolute killing if he left WWE now. You could see every indie promoter blocking Curt Hawkins' number in a second if Ziggler was available. He wouldn't have to rent his own cars or hotels or anything most of the time, either. He seems like he lives in hope that one day they'll notice him and pick him for a top spot though, without ever really going out on a limb to try and take one. He probably has no interest in minor league wank, like, and even if Johnny Sportshall was booking him to win the tinpot titles in front of 400 adoring fans, he'd still be in the hotel the same night crying while watching This Week in WWE.

 

Del Rio's an odd one being in demand in America, because it seemed like nobody had any interest in seeing him when he was in WWE. It'd be interesting to see how Sheamus would fare in the wild if he got his marching orders.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Sheamus is pure smiley modern WWE. I think he'd do really well. I remember going to see All Star years ago, and kids were jumping for joy when Daniel Bryan came out dressed as Rey Mysterio. Just the idea that there was a bloke in a mask doing a 619 had them rushing to Dixons table to buy Umaga figures (?) There was also a dwarf called "Little Legs" dressed as Hornswoggle and kids were pissing themselves. Imagine how many Mams and Dads he'd get to the family shows with their kids. Being a second rate John Cena is far better than being a first rate someone else.

Edited January 21, 2015 by IANdrewDiceClay

[Dirty Eddie]

I think it depends what you want out of your wrestling career. If just making the money is all you care about then yeah, for a lower card WWE guy who's money is pretty bad anyway, working the indie scene and making your money at the merch stand might be a happier life. But if you want to become a huge name in the wrestling business, wrestle in front of stadiums full of fans and be a TV Star in America, it's WWE or nothing. The bigger stars would make great money on the indie scene for a while, but their worth will only ever go down unless they are lucky enough to be one of the few to get a great gig in Japan.

 

AJ Styles must be the most famous and respected non-WWE contracted American wrestler in the world. He's been as big as you can get without the WWE machine for about a decade. There are not many wrestlers who could walk into the very top spot in NJPW and be accepted in that role. He's one of a very few select talents that haven't needed WWE. TNA may be a big pile of shit now, but regardless, AJ was perhaps the most pushed star of the (low at times as it may have been) number two promotion in America for about a decade.

[PowerButchi]

Sheamus is pure smiley modern WWE. I think he'd do really well. I remember going to see All Star years ago, and kids were jumping for joy when Daniel Bryan came out dressed as Rey Mysterio. Just the idea that there was a bloke in a mask doing a 619 had them rushing to Dixons table to buy Umaga figures (?) There was also a dwarf called "Little Legs" dressed as Hornswoggle and kids were pissing themselves. Imagine how many Mams and Dads he'd get to the family shows with their kids. Being a second rate John Cena is far better than being a first rate someone else.

 

He's even luckier as he'd be a great killer Gaijin in NJPW as well. He's certainly the size and top flight skill.

[tiger_rick]

Deserved plaudits for the ending to RAW. Cena celebrating with the little kid was a proper feel good moment.

Yeah, that was a fantastic moment that showed exactly why John Cena is awesome.

 

Nobody knows what Cena goes along with or nips in the bud or writes himself. According to Orton, Cena makes his own shit up half the time. Punk reckoned Cena was the only one besides himself who ever stood up to management and changed stuff he didn't like. Either way, JC made more money writing JBL is poopy than Punk did saying things to make people cum in their pants on the Internet -- so Cena might be a bit more astute in what he goes along with rather than thinking "they'll hate this on the forums, I best change it." He knows where his bread's buttered, and that's not with the people watching on Firstrowsportz who aren't going to put their hand in their pocket for a gaudy t-shirt with his face on it regardless. Like a Nickelodeon actor, he might cry about it late at night, but while the paydays are coming in, he'll keep doing it.

 

Good points. Cena also knows that you choose your battles. You can't go to war over everything or else the people you are trying to work with won't want to do stuff with you. Also, sometimes the best way to win is to do as you're asked and let them take the flak when everyone thinks it's shit. Cena is smarter than anyone gives him credit for but isn't the same level of self-serving bastard that many of his predecessors were.

 

Enjoyed reading Ian's take on the current crop and agree with many points. When push comes to shove though, I think despite their complaints, the current crop of guys like the money, job security and prestige that working for WWE brings and have no desire to risk it for more money. It's the environment Vince has been desperate to create. That the old cunt then looks down on them is ridiculously hypocritical but hey, that's Vince.

[The Cutting Edge]

Thats the messed up thing Vince does'nt want you to speak up...but will respect you if you do....but also might punish you...or push you...it depends on his mood at the time I guess, must be near impossible to do right without get yourself in shit, I think and hope Triple H will be easier for the guys to work with 

[ColinBollocks]

Thats the messed up thing Vince does'nt want you to speak up...but will respect you if you do....but also might punish you...or push you...it depends on his mood at the time I guess, must be near impossible to do right without get yourself in shit, I think and hope Triple H will be easier for the guys to work with 

Reading Jericho's book, he writes a few times that Vince will listen to an alternative, just make sure it's better and you can verbally sell him on it. The trouble is most don't want to risk coming off as a jerk off by having a meeting with a busy Vince and essentially wasting his time if he thinks your idea is no good.

 

After Vince answered "don't piss anybody off" Austin retorted with "I pissed plenty of people off", which McMahon concurred with. It's all part of the game.

Edited January 21, 2015 by ColinBollocks

[SD Jones]

Storming into Vinces office and drinking a cold one on his desk will always garner a different outcome than shuffling in with an orange foam hand and nervously croaking "Woo woo woo". If you're a simpering, creaky floorboard sounding, 90 day suspension accepting Glass Joe and your trying to sell dog shit, nobodies going to be buying. If you're going in and putting money on the table, you might not get fired on the spot. I doubt "don't piss anybody off" is absolute.

[garynysmon]

You do get the impression that most wrestlers these days grew up watching WWE so its their lifetime ambition to simply be working there, and they don't want to do anything to put that in jeopardy.

On the flipside, in days gone by, while WWE was easily the biggest game in town from 1983 onwards (probably before then as New York and the north east is the biggest market by far) , they may not have the same emotional attachment if they grew up elsewhere in the states and watched World Class, the AWA etc. Also, until 2001, you also had the safety net of WCW if you'd gone too far. 

[The Cutting Edge]

Zack Ryder is a good example of someone that tried to get noticed or rise above being a jobber on superstars, maybe he went about it slightly the wrong way with the youtube videos etc but least he tried.

 

He ticked alot of the boxes that people say you need, Colorful ring gear, sold merch, catchphrases, decent charisma and wrestler, he would'nt have gotten higher than midcard but thats not a problem not everyone can or needs to be.

 

But for whatever reason weather it was cause he spoke up, was shit or anything else he got the US title then shit on immediately after it much to the delight and amusement to some on here, he's no loss but could've been more than he is

[ColinBollocks]

In fairness, they did give Ryder a go with a major role in that Cena storyline with Kane a couple of years back. While the storyline was 4 and a chin Borash's, he was absolutely rotten in it. So bad, you can see why WWE decided they were right all along and he's good Superstars material but not much else.

[PunkStep]

Yeah, I think Ryder did well with his self-promotion, especially well given that he was/is mediocre at best.