Moderators PowerButchi Posted February 20, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) On the contrary that's actually a well thought out and reasoned argument about in ring psychology, so no, don't simmer down. You don't have to agree with it, but you can't knock him for putting forth a proper explanation and stuff. Edited February 20, 2015 by PowerButchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznor Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Christ, there is quite some whinging and nit picking going on here. Never heard anyone complain when Bret Hart would hit a tope or pescado, nor did anyone complain when Jericho used his deadlift powerbomb. Christ, Scott Steiner used to pop off frankensteiners like they were going out of fashion, yet there was no backlash against his suplex-throwing character. Simmer down. Ā Not whinging, it's called discussion. It's what I thought these sort of places were generally for. Just commenting on a gif which lead me onto a wider point. I clearly expressed myself badly because at least 2 out of your three examples have no relevance to what i was trying to say. Ā If i was going to whinge, i'd probably have started out with "christ..." Edited February 20, 2015 by Reznor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undefeated Steak Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm with Accident Prone. Over-analysis kills any enjoyment of wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted February 20, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm with Reznor, outstanding posts in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 It's not like Owens is 500 pounds so I don't see much of an issue with someone as obviously well put together as Nevile hitting a power move on him. Ā if anything I hate Owens diving about like a cruiser much, much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted February 20, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm with Reznor, outstanding posts in my opinion. Ā Yeah, it's not just about what can be done, but whether or not it makes sense to be done. To quote a half-asleep Scott Hall to Kevin Nash about the latter doing a leapfrog in his matches ; "You're the biggest guy in the company. Why are you avoiding contact? I think it's stupid." Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted February 20, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted February 20, 2015 For the record, I've no real issue with the particular spot in question, but Reznor's post was a brilliant assessment of the decline of basic psychology and storytelling in modern wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undefeated Steak Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) I like good, old school psychology as much as the next person but even from a kayfabe POV, the wrestlers need to entertain the fans to become successful and draw more money. If that means Vader back flipping off the top turnbuckle or Lesnar hitting a shooting star then so be it. It's just like boxers or UFC fighters showboating turned up to 11. Ā Edit - Just realised I missed the second half of Reznor's post when I first read it. I'm on my phone and didn't read after the quote before... I think I got the wrong end of what you were saying before. Edited February 20, 2015 by Undefeated Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 With the discussion centred around Neville's strength and the whole "jacked athlete" thing, I thought since the first time I saw him that he must be on the gear. A lot of WWE wrestlers have more natural, athletic looking bodies, but Neville's muscle tone is like Chris Masters at his biggest. Ā Roids or not, still an impressive feat of strength. Incredible match all around really. Ā One thing I'll say about the use and psychology of the suplex, I agree with Reznor but I can also see the use of the suplex as a bit of a desperation move. Neville is used to high-flying, it's what he's comfortable in with his wrestling style. I saw the suplex as an acknowledgement that Owens is so gritty and tough, the flashy stuff needed to be left alone at that point, as Neville summoned all his strength to drop the big guy on his head. The deadlift portion of the move is what helped it make sense in the match as well as being physically impressive. Neville had to put all his body strength into a single move to try and hurt Owens. If Owens had gone flying ala' a Lesnar/Angle suplex, it would have been totally stupid. If Neville could easilyĀ do that stuff, then the flying wouldn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 An excellent and well argued post Reznor. Ā Ā You said Ā "I definitely donāt like seeing too much of it, but thereās nothing illogical about a big guy showing agility" Ā I see it the same way, but also think it works both ways. If Neville or Zahn or whoever is able to pull out the odd "wow, did you see that" moment ofĀ strength, it just adds to their aura as an athlete, much as a Vader moonsault or a Bam Bam cartwheel does for them. Ā I see Neville's TV character as a wrestler who has perfected a whole range of lighting quick, high-impact moves and used his muscle-packed frame to hit them with more impact than anyone else. He doesn't use his high-flying as an act of desperation - it's his chosen style because his sudden-impact pace is his best offensive weapon. It would be a totally different case if he was average at best at the high-flying stuff (like a Scott Putski for 2015) but he's not, his stuff looks amazing. Having him stick to doing strength-based moves simply because he can would be a huge waste of his talents. Ā āIt's also workĀ pointingĀ out that Neville hasn't been presented as an underdog type in NXT. They don't really address the size stuff too much down there and he (like the other ex-indie guys) was treated like quite a big deal rightĀ from the start. My point is, he's not your old-fashioned, under-sized, skinny high-flyer, hoping to get one over on bigger opponents. He's been build-up as a tremendous all-around wrestler with amazingĀ top-ropeĀ skills, so the odd power-move is not that out of character.Ā Ā I do also think that this is all being rather overthought. I totally enjoy the discussion, don't get me wrong, but I honestly can't think of a scenario where a strong bloke being a bit too agile or a small bloke looking too strong would ruin an otherwise enjoyable match. I remember watching an old Hogan match from Japan and he does an enzijuri when someone catches his kick. I didn't think "Oh Hogan, you fool. Just use your size, strength and leverage and stop trying to pop the Japanese marks" I though "Wow, nice one hulkster". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapnuts Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Lucha Dragons had a match on Main Event against axel & slater. I guess that's them off of NXT now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Not necessarily, Sami Zayn had a match on Main Event a couple of months back. There had been talk about Kalisto coming up soon though, one story as he is and one of a gay hairdresser which has since been rubbished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapnuts Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 NXT talent have a pretty poor record when it comes to making the translation onto the bigger shows but I think Lucha Dragons would fit into the tag scene perfectly as they are. Ā Kidd & Cesaro Uso's Prime Time Players Lucha Dragons Ascension Los Matadors New Day Ā That's a pretty healthy tag scene in my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Kidd & Cesaro Uso's Prime Time Players Lucha Dragons Ascension Los Matadors New Day Ā That's a pretty healthy tag scene in my mind Kidd & Cersaro, PTPs, New Day - all thrown together because they've got nothing better for them Ascension - look like a right of muppets and attempt to get over by mentioning old tag teams from 20 years ago Matadores - can't even remember last I saw them win a match Ā Usos are the only decent proper tag team they have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 WWE has got the teams for a good tag scene, but like the rest of the midcard, it doesn't matter how good or bad the roster is because none of it will mean anything. Ā Sami Zayn had a couple of matches on Main Event, didn't he? I thought he had a little mini-feud (ie rematches) with someone. I wouldn't read too much into Cara and Kalisto appearing there, although I would move them to the main roster now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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