NXT - Post NXT Takeover discussion in progress

[air_raid]

Let's put it this way, re : Riddle. I heard buzz about him, watched him live for the first time in January 2017, watched him go on to wrestle New Japan regulars for feds both British and American, decided he was the hottest prospect in independent wrestling and then became aware that he had signed an NXT deal, all before I became aware the MLW had been revived. He's an "MLW guy" to me about as much as Balor was an "NWA Hammerlock guy" when he signed.

[PunkStep]

Hopefully those logical posts have put this weird 'WWE are screwing over MLW' conspiracy to bed. The weirdest thing was suggesting that they have harnessed some ill-feeling towards them since their original incarnation 15 years ago because Trips had a chat with Kojima.

Touching on the 'WWE haven't replace Rey with another Latino star' subject, I don't think I am holding much faith that they will do that with Fenix. When I saw both Fenix and Kalisto for the first time a few years ago, I thought they were inseparable in terms of ability and look. Now I haven't seen Fenix much over the past year or so, and Kalisto hasn't really set the world on fire (although in fairness they haven't really done a great deal with him), but is there much difference between the two today? Can Fenix fit into that Latino superstar mould better and more naturally than Kalisto potentially could? I still can't believe they didn't give Kalisto a decent sized push, perhaps worried they had another Sin Cara on their hands.

Pentagon is a very interesting one. That's somebody I never thought we'd see in WWE, and am still sceptical over the rumours he's headed there. He's a great wrestler and I love his character, but I don't see him being the Latino star there- his look isn't the right fit. He has a superb heel or anti-hero look, but not the hero look Rey, Fenix, Kalisto or even to an extent Sin Cara have. Is there a language barrier issue? Hopefully he can be the antagonist (along with Almas) in some feuds aimed at the Latino market, much like WCW did.

[The Dart]

2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

Matt Riddle worked EVOLVE and PROGRESS, companies with direct public relationships with WWE.

Did I read that WWE actually put Evolve onto Riddle in the first place?  They pretty much said ' this guy's gonna be good, but we don't want him, maybe you can find a use for him"

[Ambulance Chaser]

The potential signing of Pentagon is probably the most interested capture for me personally that WWE has made since god knows when, maybe Owens. I will be fascinated to see what they can do with him, to me he is a star, he radiates something special without even doing much. Just imagine if they made him that anti-hero, the amount of masks they would sell, the T-Shirt sales. My understanding is that he speaks sound English? Dunno if anyone can confirm but I'm sure I heard that on some podcast.

It's WWE though isn't it, my excitement will die within weeks, sure he might do decently in NXT but unless Vince has died by the time he gets to TV he will be riding to the ring on a fucking lawnmower.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Ambulance Chaser

[BomberPat]

I think Fenix has the best shout of being the next Rey Mysterio out of anyone out there right now.

Aside from being similar to Rey in the early days of his career, in that he's busting out moves and high spots that a mainstream audience have never seen before (even by the dive, flip and rana-heavy standards of modern wrestling), but he's also incredible at playing the sympathetic babyface. His body language sells that he's got this "never say die" attitude when fighting from underneath, that just resonates brilliantly. If that can translate to WWE, then I think he's definitely a cut above Kalisto.

There could be something to Fenix coming in with the same name and gimmick, so carrying some goodwill from his time in Mexico, which Kalisto couldn't necessarily rely on - not to mention Kalisto being tied to a failed Sin Cara for a long time, so not having as much of an opportunity to show himself as a major star in his own right.

 

Penta's an interesting one. Aside from only speaking limited English, I'd say Penta has all the tools he needs to succeed in WWE - but the question is whether the role that Pentagon is best suited for really even exists there. Like you say, he's the heel to battle the Latino babyface, which leaves him without much to do if that babyface doesn't exist. 

They could always bring them in as a tag team, but I think that holds them both back, and doesn't play to Pentagon's strengths.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Ambulance Chaser said:

The potential signing of Pentagon is probably the most interested capture for me personally that WWE has made since god knows when, maybe Owens. I will be fascinated to see what they can do with him, to me he is a star, he radiates something special without even doing much. Just imagine if they made him that anti-hero, the amount of masks they would sell, the T-Shirt sales. My understanding is that he speaks sound English? Dunno if anyone can confirm but I'm sure I heard that on some podcast.

It might have improved, but the only interaction I've had with Penta was in fairly broken English - enough to get by, but he's not going to be cutting 10 minute promos to open RAW. Of course, part of NXT/the Performance Center is set aside to teaching English, so that might be a non-issue. One of the exciting things about Pentagon is how, admittedly on a smaller scale, he's got himself over as a charismatic heel with a known catchphrase, without speaking English.

100% agree on merch sales, though. If you're a kid with only a passing knowledge of pro-wrestling, do you buy the action figure of the guy with a crop-top and plain black trunks, or do you buy the guy that looks like he walked straight out of Mortal Kombat?

Edited September 14, 2018 by BomberPat

[adequate8]

Re: Penta and Fenix, I’ve only seen their All In match, where’s best to start to see their better matches? 

[air_raid]

44 minutes ago, PunkStep said:

 I still can't believe they didn't give Kalisto a decent sized push, perhaps worried they had another Sin Cara on their hands.

 

"I suppose what you're trying to say is, you don' t want another Sin Cara on your hands."

"No that is what we want."

"I'm your man."

[AdamTH17]

21 minutes ago, The Dart said:

Did I read that WWE actually put Evolve onto Riddle in the first place?  They pretty much said ' this guy's gonna be good, but we don't want him, maybe you can find a use for him"

Pretty much. They knew coming over from MMA would mean he'd be a natural fit in terms of athleticism and conditioning, and they knew he had an abundance of talent but they wanted to send him elsewhere to get really good and get some buzz behind him before they signed him, hence why they shipped him off to EVOLVE where he became one of their top guys within six months. 

[Accident Prone]

14 minutes ago, adequate8 said:

Re: Penta and Fenix, I’ve only seen their All In match, where’s best to start to see their better matches? 

Pretty open ended question as they work everywhere. Your best best is to subscribe to the HighSpots Network (£9.99 per month) and watch all their PWG and AAW stuff. Just search their name in the search bar and away you go.

[TildeGuy~!]

Pentagon Jr Vs Kairi Sane, Io Shirai, Mayu Iwatani and Angela Fong in a gauntlet match.

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by TildeGuy~!

[LaGoosh]

Pentagon is a weird signing. I love the guy. His character is amazing. His look is cool. But his character is basically a psychotic mix of Stone Cold Steve Austin and Skeletor. He excels in situations where he's an incredibly violent and dangerous man. He has a unique charisma but in the way that he has that unpredictable and nasty aura about him. I met him once and found him incredibly intimidating. His best matches are when he's being an absolute sadistic cunt (see the fantastic gauntlet match posted above). I don't think WWE will be able to translate that across. When he's out of that environment his matches tend to have a CAW moveset feel to them. And he's hardly the biggest bloke either.

Fenix on the other hand has more of an upside in the long run, as out of the two brothers he's the best in the ring. And as Bomber Pat said, he's amazing at selling. He really gets the crowd behind him. He fights like his life depends on it. He has that way of looking at the crowd in desperation and them all rallying behind him. Combine that with his crisp, spectacular offence and if they book him right they've got a winner on their hands. Even Rey Mysterio thinks he's amazing.

Edited September 14, 2018 by LaGoosh

[Guest]

Sad about Penta as he's a world class hardcore plunder match guy first and foremost imo, and we can kiss goodbye to those matches. He's had terrific brutal battles with Vampiro (yes, really!) and Callihan (I don't like Sami but his AAW match and the recent TNA one are superb)

Edited September 16, 2018 by sj5522

[Loki]

Pete Dunne v Ricochet is the best match you'll see this year.  Simply brilliant in every aspect.  NXT gives its performers far better opportunities week to week than the major brands.  This match had a quick build-up over the last few weeks of tv, enough to give it some backstory that they could pay into, and then they give them half an hour to tell a story.

If Ricochet ever goes up he'll probably end up like Balor, as a smiling floppy flopper who "entertains" and loses.  But Dunne has a very, very bright future.  He's Regal and Benoit and Angle but much, much grumpier.  Makes me so happy to see wrestling like that on WWE television.

[Fatty Facesitter]

Dunne/Ricochet is an absolute masterpiece. So far they’ve only dealt in absolute bangers when it comes to matches haven’t they? Amazing. I’m guessing the finish is them lining things up for the Takeover Wargames PPV for when that rolls around.

I’ve seen criticisms about Ricochet and Dunne’s mic work not necessarily being the best and I can see where they are coming from, but because their styles are so eye-catching I don’t think it’ll hold them back too much if - and I know this is WWE creative - they are allowed to keep expressing themselves in the manner they do. With Dunne in particular, a lot of the charisma can just come from his aura - if a GM announces a heel will have a match with him, the heel needs to have the fear of God in his eyes and check his fingers, knowing he’s going to try and break them and take great pleasure in doing so. Instead of having promo back and forths with him, have the heel talk the match up and just roll a video package of Dunne fucking people up and bending them like pretzels. It’s the old Heyman analogy of hiding the weaknesses and accentuating the positives. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Fatty Facesitter

[HarmonicGenerator]

Excellent match. Because the titles were on the line you knew it wasn’t going to a clean finish but it did well to set up War Games without taking away how great the match was. Good story of the arm being told throughout as well. 

So what do we reckon - Ricochet, Dunne & War Raiders vs all four Undisputed, or Undisputed minus Fish vs British Strong Style vs Ricochet & Raiders?