WyattSheepMask Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 I popped huge for the Hull Kingston Rovers reference during Luke Menzie’s entrance. He didn’t get to show much obviously as it was a showcase for Keith Lee and Luke has only just got to the PC, so I’d be surprised if we see him again anytime soon. Hope it works out for him though  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King of Old School Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Keith Lee is the pits. He should team up with Lars Sullivan so we don't have to suffer them in different segments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 1, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 1, 2018 Having seen Keith live many times, I can assure you he is anything but 'the pits'. What an outrageous opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted September 1, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 1, 2018 Yeah. It’s early days but I don’t see what the big fuss is about Keith Lee. He’s a big guy who can do some lucha spots but that’s about it so far. Jury is still out though because, as others have said, Undisputed Era came in as the most boring, faceless workrate wankers ever and now look at them. They’re fantastic. Kyle O'Reilly in particular might be the biggest success story in the history of the Performace Centre. It seemed he always nailed it between the ropes, but the way he’s developed all these little nuances to build his character is something to behold. Honestly, if his character doesn’t play the championship belt like a guitar in the new computer game then 2K can fuck right off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Onyx2 Posted September 2, 2018 Awards Moderator Share Posted September 2, 2018 Another one not getting Keith Lee yet, I've only seen him on NXT. So he can huracanrana, fine. I have seen Bam Bam Bigelow before. The arrogance he shows isn't yet worthy of his performance. Hoping to be a convert though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted September 2, 2018 Awards Moderator Share Posted September 2, 2018 Same here. I’ve seen big men do athletic stuff before, I’m going to need to be shown something more before I’m won over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Maestro Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Add me to the not convinced by Keith Lee list. Still it's very early days so he may grow on me. I was the same with Undisputed Era when I first watched them but they've become one of my favourite acts in wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I think they might have screwed up Keith Lee's introduction, to be fair. Â If they'd had a series of blistering squashes ala Samoa Joe debuting in TNA, we might all be more impressed. Â But if his gimmick is "big men shouldn't be able to do this stuff" then that's terrible, as Bigelow, Vader, Bossman, Joe are all available to watch on the Network to prove that false. Some gimmicks just don't work when exposed to national tv. Â Apollo Crews is just another guy in WWE whereas on the Indies he was this large jacked guy who could do a standing moonsault. Â Aleister Black was super scary and tough until he arrives in the land of giants and rippling torsos, where he looks a bit bland. Â Maybe Keith Lee is the same - a giant in bingo halls, but on the same roster as Lars Sullivan he needs more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrodyGraham Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 It seems to be the general rule on here that anyone from the Indies gets dismissed as a no mark workrate wanker, either sight unseen or off the basis of their first couple of matches on NXT TV. Give talent more than 2 five minute TV matches before writing them off or at least have a look at some of their earlier work. In the case of Undisputed Era for example, it simply took a little time for NXT to present them in the manner they had been elsewhere. Fish and O'Reilly had already been playing the smug prick heels in ROH, long before they were thrown out on TV, with no build as sacrificial lambs for Alistair Black. There's a couple of cracking Fish Tank segments from ROH on YouTube. It took them best part of 2 years to present Roddy Strong the way he was on the Indies. I'll admit to a certain degree of bias but it does feel like some people on here, who typically complain about 'Dem Wanz' are just the opposite side of the same coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted September 2, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 minute ago, BrodyGraham said: It seems to be the general rule on here that anyone from the Indies gets dismissed as a no mark workrate wanker, either sight unseen or off the basis of their first couple of matches on NXT TV. I don't think that's fair at all, however if anyone that is highly rated on the indies, and then is either shit or bland when they join NXT, then it's fair game. People on here were bigging up the likes of Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Samoa Joe (apart from his original shit music) and Balor when they made their NXT debut. Everyone here was blown away by Nakamura to the extent that he was instantly everyone's favourite. The likes of Undisputed Era, Sami Callihan and Apollo Crews were rightly blasted because they were not good. Over time, everyone's opinion on Undisputed Era has changed because they've improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrodyGraham Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 55 minutes ago, PunkStep said:  The likes of Undisputed Era, Sami Callihan and Apollo Crews were rightly blasted because they were not good. Over time, everyone's opinion on Undisputed Era has changed because they've improved. See, I'm not sure they have. There's not a lot you can do with what Undisputed Era were given in their first couple of months. Go out, lose, run away. Cole, especially got next to no mic time, pretty much until after War Games. That's a guy that was hired partially for how good he was on the stick, not getting to do what he was hired for. My one criticism with UE was that if anything O'Reilly was going too big with the facials and goofy body language. He's dialled it back to somewhere in the middle and been allowed to speak and now he's ’the Performance Centre's biggest success story’. Forget the decade before that, 6 months with Albert and he's golden. 2 months ago, it was 'the War Raiders are shit' after 2 squash matches and a 5 minute match with Heavy Machinery. Now it's ’I don't get the hype with Keith Lee', after 2 50/50 matches with guys who've had no TV time at all! I'm not coming at this as a huge Keith Lee' fan, I think they've robbed him of about a quarter of his hype by ditching his old (tremendous), indie theme and not letting him rap his own entrance, but I'm saying, give people a little time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TildeGuy~! Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 The problem is they don’t do an in ring debut at Takeovers anymore, they just debut them sitting in the front row wearing suits and then possibly at the next tapings in an average match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted September 2, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, TildeGuy~! said: The problem is they don’t do an in ring debut at Takeovers anymore, they just debut them sitting in the front row wearing suits and then possibly at the next tapings in an average match. This is spot on. For whatever reason, sometime in the last year or two, they've decided the best way to debut guys is in average TV matches rather than on the big stage. If I'm not mistaken, a few guys have even debuted in losing fashion. It's a far cry from when Nakamura rocked up like a God and blew everyone away. It's not necessarily a bad thing though. In retrospect, I'd rather guys came in and grew on me like Undisputed Era did. Namakura did the opposite, coming in and immediately becoming my favourite wrestler on the planet, only to slowly get lazier and lazier until I didn't care about him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrodyGraham Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 The question of how to debut guys on NXT is a weird one though, chiefly because there's always one of us to complain about it. When they were debuting guys on Takeover it wound up being counter productive because either they'd wind up burying someone they wanted to invest in, like Almas, or the crowd would get behind the other guy just because, like Tye Dillinger. The strange thing to me is the tendency to just throw someone out there with no build and the expectation that the audience will care just because and then two months later run a two part mini documentary. If we'd known the War Raiders story ahead of time, we might not have people dismissing them as Wyatt family knock-offs (because everyone with a beard is) or complaining that Hanson and Rowe sounds too much like Harper and Rowan, so naturally, they’re shit.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 2, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, PunkStep said: The likes of Undisputed Era, Sami Callihan and Apollo Crews were rightly blasted because they were not good. Over time, everyone's opinion on Undisputed Era has changed because they've improved. Undisputed Era are literally portraying the same characters they did on the indie scene. There's no improvement, they've just been adjusting to the 'WWE style'. Callihan is shit unless he's in a multi-man brawl and Apollo was great as an indie novelty, so not surprised they didn't work out. Aliester Black is legit a scary looking bastard whether it's in a small venue or a large arena, he's got it in the bag. In regards to Keith Lee, they've not done the best job introducing him. He's going 70/30 with jobbers and not getting a chance to show off his big personality. Believe it or not, Keith Lee didn't get over because he's a big guy who can move. He got over because of his ring presence, the way he presents himself, his charisma and the way he works around the moves. One of my favourite moments this year was Kieth Lee just staring someone down for what felt like an eternity. Edited September 2, 2018 by Accident Prone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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