Wrestling consensuses you disagree with

[DCW]

I loved the Invasion. I completely bought into all the hype, loved seeing the WCW and ECW lads (minus Steph's horrendous involvment) and it's just a pity Vince had such a fragile ego that he couldn't face making the WCW lads look more equal to the WWF and that he couldn't find the few quid to throw at Bisch, Flair and the NWO a few months earlier.  

I loved heel Austin too. The Power Trip, him bullying Spike and Molly, his match with Benoit in Calgary were all great. That end segment where 'the old Stone Cold' returns and clears house on the final Raw before Invasion is incredible and set up the swerve (bro!) perfectly. It would have been dull as fuck if Austin just played on as the one note babyface he'd become ever since his return from neck surgery in 2000. Was great craic seeing him heel it up beating up Tazz, being jealous of RVD's popularity and piledriving Michael Cole on the arena floor. Loved the way he would go after the camera guys and people in the crowd too, he was obviously having the time of his life. When he turned back face in early 2002 it was predictably shite.

[TheBurningRed]

I also loved the Invasion. I stayed up on a school night to watch Survivor Series out of fear that The Alliance would win and WWF would be no more. Holds a special place for me. And as others have said, Austin was great that year as a heel. Some really fun matches. Jericho was also excellent.

Still doesn’t seem like it was only 5 months. It seemed so much longer when I was a kid. 

[wandshogun09]

The only thing I hated about heel Austin was that was when he started the “WHAT?” shite. The initial promo where he started saying it was entertaining but it got absolutely run into the crowd so fast it rendered almost every in ring interview unwatchable for ages after.

This reminds me, there was one line Austin hit Taz with on Smackdown which killed me at the time. It must’ve been just after KOTR where Booker T attacked Austin because there was an episode where the running story all show long in backstage segments was that Austin wanted revenge and was gonna look for Booker or something. He finally goes to the ring and he’s calling Booker out, turns round and Taz is in the ring wanting revenge because Austin battered Michael Cole the week before. Austin looks at Taz and goes “Unless Booker T got real short and real fat real fast, you ain’t no Booker T”.

Edit - Found it.

Austin’s face when Taz is bollocking him as well…

?

Edited August 13, 2025 by wandshogun09

[herbie747]

6 hours ago, Merzbow said:

Yeah Kronik had already proven infront of albeit smaller crowds that they weren't shit, it could and should have been a great bit of meat slapping meat match but Kane and 'Taker didn't want to sell.

Yeah agreed. Plus why were they acting like these were random green WCW guys who couldn't work? Both of them were already in WWF a few years earlier. 

[Merzbow]

Plus Adams was a genuine close friend of 'Taker, that entire deal is weird. 

[RIDDUM_N_STYLE]

The Austin heel turn was genuinely fun initially as he was booked as an utter psycho, the beatdown on Rock in the cage the night after Mania, beating the tar out of JR, bullying and slapping about Cole which led to Taz standing up for him, the uncomfortable beatdown with Trips of the Hardyz and Lita etc, it was just after H went down with the quad injury, when they lost the tag belts to Jericho and his partner, and Angle was paired with him that it fell apart a bit up to the Raw before Invasion because he leaned too into the goofy heel schtick

One thing I’m really not getting is the current online clamour for Kross, he wasn’t that great in his NXT run and everything since he’s come back has been sinfully boring to the point it dragged down AJ, Sami and others to his shite level. Did they even explain why Scarlett showed Roman an hourglass the night they returned?

 

[Chris B]

9 hours ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

"Wrestling is art".

Nah, mate. It's not. 

Didn't you write your thesis on wrestling?

[BomberPat]

11 hours ago, DCW said:

I loved the Invasion. I completely bought into all the hype, loved seeing the WCW and ECW lads (minus Steph's horrendous involvment) and it's just a pity Vince had such a fragile ego that he couldn't face making the WCW lads look more equal to the WWF and that he couldn't find the few quid to throw at Bisch, Flair and the NWO a few months earlier.  

the TLC Podcast recently brought up the timing of the angle, and something I had never really considered - obviously it's easier to say this with hindsight, because they wouldn't have known that it would have panned out quite this way, but given that they had Ric Flair come in the day after Survivor Series and then the New World Order were announced as coming in two months later, they could have more pleasingly dragged out the storyline:

• The Alliance win at Survivor Series
• Ric Flair debuts the following night, but rather than as co-owner of the WWF, he's the Commissioner/figurehead for the "new" company - they didn't bring this up on the podcast, but obviously there's no way that TV networks and sponsors would have been happy with them even temporarily rebranding the whole company as WCW or anything other than the WWF, but I think you could easily bullshit together a story about Shane and Stephanie using the WWF name to rub it in to their dad that they now own his life's work.
• Steve Austin still turns babyface; maybe he realises that he's been used by The Alliance to get what they want, and they start treating him worse now that they've won.
• They can still do the Undisputed Title tournament at Vengeance
• Triple H still returns as a babyface, opposed to Stephanie McMahon
• Vince McMahon still brings in the New World Order in February, because he has even more reason now to want to destroy what the WWF has become.
• Linda McMahon still introduces the brand split after Wrestlemania, because Vince, Shane, Stephanie and Flair are at risk of tearing the WWF to bits. 

[simonworden]

Wasn't the Invasion basically buggered as soon as they found out TV networks didn't want WCW/anymore wrestling. Most were heading off into making all that focus on the ladies money by 2000 so more rasslin was off the cards. But they hadn't forseen that in the purchase and start of things. 

I get not confusing the audience but I always felt they could've had a WCW Heat show or something. Perhaps contractually they couldn't do that. Rambling here but surely a WWF:WCW Heat thingy would've flown. 

----

That said, I reckon on a week to week basis a WCW invasion involving Goldberg, Flair, nwo, Steiner etc would've ended up absolutely bollocks. Worse than what we got. 

The way it was done might have been a wash out but it did somewhat give us a few things worth remembering. 

RVD/Booker T as a solid upper midcarders who could main event. 

Jeff Hardy first stepping up as a singles star. 

The Hurricane gimmick

Probably Test's best run which they then squandered. 

Rhyno and Tajiri put on some bangers if I remember rightly. 

And of course two more great Billy Gunn tag teams - With Chuck and Showgunns! 

 

 

[Snitsky's back acne]

8 hours ago, Chris B said:

Didn't you write your thesis on wrestling?

I did (passed and in the rewrite phase) and it includes the argument against wrestling being art.

 

[Zaheer]

Eric Bischoff was a visionary and the WCW rise was brilliant.
He's not - he got tons of money and used it. Had a short stint on top then it fell apart. Has done very little of relevant since and been stealing a living off it.

I'd say even TNA ran longer and has been better than the VERY SHORT time WCW was good.

 

[Hannibal Scorch]

3 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

I did (passed and in the rewrite phase) and it includes the argument against wrestling being art.

 

The dictionary definition of Art proves wrestling is art.

[Snitsky's back acne]

Just now, Hannibal Scorch said:

The dictionary definition of Art proves wrestling is art.

Yet there are many valid and worthwhile definitions of what constitutes art beyond the dictionary. High level academia is unable to agree what accurately constitutes "art"'.

In fact, as a cohort, it pushes back on lots of dictionary definitions as the be-all, end-all when it comes to defining something.(see the ongoing discourse around the dictionary definition of "woman" as an example)

As Professor Richard Schechner famously said "I think all definitions are bullshit." 

You can certainly interpret wrestling as art (many have), however that does not make it art.

[BomberPat]

I think the "is it art?" stuff misses the point, personally. Video games routinely go through the same debate, and what you see from a lot of both audiences is very similar - they see a medium they love being disparaged and disrespected, and they think that if they could just convince people that it's "art", then there's a shortcut to being taken seriously. They want it to be "art" to avoid criticism, rather than for it to be opened up to critique as art. 

Personally, I think it is art, but usually bad art.

[tiger_rick]

17 hours ago, TheScarlettChad said:

The ruthless aggression era isn't better than the attitude era. I mean.....it is..

Ruthless Agression isn't an era, it was another shit catchphrase that Vince failed to get over. I dunno how long you're defining that "era" but by any measure except Dave's snowflakes, the period from 2002-2005/6/7/9/10/now is absolutely inferior to the 5 years before.