Wrestling consensuses you disagree with

[westlondonmist]

13 minutes ago, FUM said:

I would throw the Invasion angle being crap in as a whole as a consensus I don’t agree with. I loved it, still do, watch shows back from 2001 all the time.

I enjoyed it, I think it possibly could have been done better but a big problem it had was that WCW didn't really have the stars. I loved DDP and Booker T as I watched WCW but they didn't have the star power of The Rock or Austin, probably not even Kurt Angle or Jericho at that point. It really needed Sting, Flair and/or Goldberg. Main eventers for WCW in their final 3 PPVs were Steiner, DDP, Jarrett, Nash, Vicious and Road Warrior fucking Animal. 

 

edit: @HarmonicGenerator I didn't get into face Austin, heel Austin was great fun as I could boo him. Totally with you on that. I actually struggled with lots of WWF faces such as The Rock. They were dicks and I wanted to boo them. 

Edited August 13, 2025 by westlondonmist

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

19 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

It's not art. It's cinema.

Cinemart. Problem solved. 

[tiger_rick]

20 minutes ago, FUM said:

I would throw the Invasion angle being crap in as a whole as a consensus I don’t agree with. I loved it, still do, watch shows back from 2001 all the time.

It wasn't crap. I enjoyed plenty of it too and there were some really memorable moments. It could have been far better. The fact they had to pull in ECW at all to create an "Alliance" and felt the need to blow it off at Survivor Series fter only 5 months is evidence that they blew it. It didn't really deliver the dream scenarios it could have after the first PPV. It's a shoulda, woulda, coulda scenario but definitely not shit. Compared to where they were at less than a year later, it was bloody brilliant! 

Edited August 13, 2025 by tiger_rick

[SuperBacon]

Isn't Jerichos initial WWF debut (well, everything AFTER the debut, which was obviously fantastic) and run considered shit?

I loved it! 97-99 WCW Jericho (especially his heel work) is probably my favourite run ever (after 97 Bret) so when he debuted I was stoked, and couldn't believe he'd been nabbed.

Loved all his interactions, his feud with Chyna, his Mania match, all cracking in my opinion.

[tiger_rick]

6 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Isn't Jerichos initial WWF debut (well, everything AFTER the debut, which was obviously fantastic) and run considered shit?

I loved it! 97-99 WCW Jericho (especially his heel work) is probably my favourite run ever (after 97 Bret) so when he debuted I was stoked, and couldn't believe he'd been nabbed.

Loved all his interactions, his feud with Chyna, his Mania match, all cracking in my opinion.

Yeah, I'd say that's a good shout for the topic. I think I agree. Wouldn't go as far as cracking, there's some chaff in there and the addition of skinny Mr Hughes to the act is pants but Jericho survives it. I'd say it's definitely not what I wanted him to be doing or I would have had him doing but we know with hindsight that it's because they thought he couldn't work to their level. 

You've reminded me of another one. The very obvious "X-Pac heat" myth. X-Pac was great. Brilliant little worker, always.

[Tennessee Moltisanti]

"Randy Orton is a great wrestler"

He's not, he's boring and he's shit.

[DavidB6937]

2 minutes ago, sukhy said:

"Randy Orton is a great wrestler"

He's not, he's boring and he's shit.

Thing is I don't think there are many people that would put him up there with the best, or be able to name loads of his matches as memorable.

I think he's been solid for a long time and has a very over finish, but there's plenty of other top wrestlers people would pick before him.

[TheBurningRed]

His feud with Christian is the best work he’s done for me. Not a bad match in the bunch. 

[TheScarlettChad]

The ruthless aggression era isn't better than the attitude era. I mean.....it is..

[FLips]

1 hour ago, FUM said:

I would throw the Invasion angle being crap in as a whole as a consensus I don’t agree with. I loved it, still do, watch shows back from 2001 all the time.

This is a great one. During the Invasion I was still like 90% kayfabed so things like winner takes all, wrestlers changing sides, and the possibility the company would close (obviously not in hindsight) were amazing viewing for me.

As a new fan it also encouraged me to start watching WCW and ECW to find out who a lot of people were so that’s all thanks to the Invasion too.

If we’re talking about individual moments from it, the Invasion has all sorts. The ECW gang all turning on WWF to join WCW, “the old Stone Cold” coming back to help Team WWF and getting maybe the biggest pop ever even to this day, Milk-a-Mania, Kurt vs Shane at King of The Ring, a bonkers Hardcore division. I think people focus too much on the tail end of the Invasion and that it could have been better as a storyline, but in terms of matches and moments created because of the Invasion it’s one of the best things to ever happen to the company. Linda McMahon standing up out of her chair is technically part of the Invasion!

[AshC]

2 hours ago, The Gaffer said:

 

All logic dictates that the product was more well rounded and tightly written: The roster was better, the in ring quality came on leaps and bounds, the TVs had a far more endearing mix of soap opera, stakes and light heartedness and there was significantly less "No, I'm watching porn I swear!" moments. 

I just never liked it as much. The feeling - that uncanny, atmospheric, "Should I be watching this?" momentum - just doesn't hit the same for me. It's like they've settled down, worked things out, refined the cast and production and just...delivered. 

Whilst I still think it was the most entertaining, memorable time I've had as a fan, I've cooled in all the obvious sorts of places on the Attitude Era. But if I want to go back I'm still taking that often dingy, screw loose, warts and all vibe of 98 and even 99 over 2000. 

Such a shout, this. 

I remember watching a Raw in 2000 and it announced a Jericho and Dudleys vs Kurt, Edge and Christian tables match, with no angle or anything to set it up, just the general face/heel allegiances of the time.

And feeling like something was... amiss.

Like that wildly unpredictable, episodic period of 98/99 had passed.

Obviously there's tons of great stuff in 2000, but yeah.

As for the Invasion, I know people who cite it as one of the big things in making them a fan, and, conversely, a pal who I watched a bunch of the PPVs with in 1998-2001 pretty much jacked in wrestling for good as it unfolded.

[wandshogun09]

2 hours ago, HarmonicGenerator said:

Consensus: Steve Austin’s heel run was terrible.

I never enjoyed him more than his heel run. I didn’t like Babyface Austin at any point, but now you were supposed to boo him? I was on board with his guitar playing, Spike Dudley beating, watch listening ways.

Yeah by as early as late 99 I was starting to get a bit sick of babyface Austin. And from the return in 2000, I thought he was actually detracting from the quality of the shows by just constantly running in and Stunnering everyone or whacking them with chairs. While I recognise heel Austin in 2001 might not have been the best move business wise, for me personally Austin became way more entertaining by going heel and not being so fucking serious. He was fun as a character and I thought the quality of his matches as a heel got a lot better as well. However much Austin says with the benefit of hindsight that he wishes he never turned heel, at the time you could tell he was having fun out there in those matches with Angle, Benoit, Jericho, RVD, Taker, Rock and pissing around with Tajiri and Spike. Although bumping around like he was in those matches is probably a big part of the reason he looked completely knackered physically by 2002. I thought he was pretty great as a heel in 2001 but the cost of that was probably that it sped up his path to retirement. 

[Snitsky's back acne]

4 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Nah, it is.

That is the general consensus - which is why I posted what I did in this thread. 

[RedTwoster]

Consensus: Albert/A-Train was shit 

I’m talking specifically about Albert’s time in WWE before his Japan stint, and even more specifically about his time as A-Train on Smackdown. He was a very mobile big-man who had a real explosive element to his offence and could be pretty agile on his day. He had some enjoyable matches on Smackdown during that period, and I enjoyed him at the time, and through watching him back. When I started watching wrestling in late 2002/03 I wasn’t tuned into the internet, and I was pretty shocked that people considered him poor. I didn’t think he was, and I still don’t.

[TheBurningRed]

Albert had a banger of a match with Benoit on Smackdown. Granted, it was Benoit and he could make anyone look good. But it was fun. I like Albert. He and Test should’ve got a tag title run, even if brief. Fun big man tag team.