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You’ve outstayed your welcome


garynysmon

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33 minutes ago, Loki said:

I kind of feel the exact opposite.  I admire people who’ve honed their skills to the point where they can get in, get out and go home, particularly when they’re able to do it at the top of their profession for huge amounts of money.

Why should Orton leave a top billing position and go work Japan or whatever?  To improve his cred with work rate obsessed fans?  Is that really what’s important?

 He reminds me of Nash - do what you do well, do the minimum required to make the most money, don’t be a mark for the business, get out before you’re in a wheelchair.  

I suspect in a decade we’ll all be talking about how smart he was.

I suppose it would depend on the questions you're asking.

From an industry perspective, abso-bloody-lutely - in an industry where your health is always on the line, and in a company where the boss for the most part doesn't really care if you're injured unless you make him money directly, take the money until it stops paying out. Get in, get out, get paid - when you've lucked into a family that pretty much guarantees you an in into a job that can make you millions more than your average 9 to 5, there's nothing wrong with doing it even if you couldn't give a fuck about it, especially if you happen to have the talent for it as well.

From a fan perspective, it's a bit shite, because it doesn't make for particularly great viewing - and you don't have to jump to the extreme of workrate obsession for that to be a problem; there've been plenty of WWE-style workers who've been dull as sin to watch because of their laziness. Orton, for a big chunk of his career, was one of them. I haven't seen anything of his work for the last ten years, but I remember reading loads of reports on here about him doing not even the bare minimum for WWE. I am intrigued by Devon's post that he's apparently been great to watch for the past two years, but not enough to go back to giving WWE my money directly ever again.

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2 hours ago, Daddymagic said:

Dolph Ziggler, New Day (especially Kofi), Randy Orton, Tamina, Dana Brooke, Natalya, R Truth, Jinder - aside from Orton, who can still be valuable - are years past their best.

Tamina is the poster child for this thread. She never had a "best."

Nattie is another particularly crazy example of enjoying a lengthy run in the company despite never being more than mediocre. The last five years or so have been particularly grating because the company has pushed her as being some kind of "legend" even though all she's ever had is the right family.

gary's right that its got to hell in regards to what people shoot for anyway in terms of what they achieve or are remembered for - just look at when Corbin said he'd rather nobody ever kick out of End Of Days than win the World title. I'm not saying everyone should run out and have the date of their title win tattooed on them like a loser or everything but.... Jesus. Why wouldn't you want to be remembered for the company wanting you recognized as the best at a given time?

Maybe Randy doesn't want to just be honest and say "I was the guy that came in about the same time as Cena and lasted as long and longer than him, but I was always just the other guy compared to him."

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I'm going to be honest I've never really understood Orton. Couldn't get behind him as a face, and as a heel I didn't really care about seeing him getting beat. I thought he was dull. It's always bewildered me but crowds did react so I guess that's just me. 

Fair play to him for still being able to sting money from WWE. If you can get a good part time deal then why not. 

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2 hours ago, Carbomb said:

 I am intrigued by Devon's post that he's apparently been great to watch for the past two years, but not enough to go back to giving WWE my money directly ever again.

He hasn’t. He was in an awful  match which was called image.jpeg.3525cc35f17764dc00c9208cbc0df879.jpeg

And if Lionel Hutz was still with us (or real), I’m sure would have sued for false advertising. He’s had some funny skits with Riddle but in the ring, same old boring Randy.

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5 hours ago, garynysmon said:

So while Randy Orton’s career was hurt from having substantially fewer options re: alternative places to go after WCW’s 1999 downturn and Hollywood not wanting him, is it just me or is sticking around for 20 years doing basically the same act not exactly a positive thing?

I've not watched in depth for a while but the highlighted part is surely the issue, and that's not just for Orton but in wider wrestling. Characters need to grow and change over time both to keep them fresh & relevant and to keep them meaningful as they mature and younger talent moves in if they are hanging around for the long haul. 

 

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45 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

He hasn’t. He was in an awful  match which was called image.jpeg.3525cc35f17764dc00c9208cbc0df879.jpeg

And if Lionel Hutz was still with us (or real), I’m sure would have sued for false advertising. He’s had some funny skits with Riddle but in the ring, same old boring Randy.

Whoever came up with that branding is a fucking lunatic and the fact it ever got off the cutting room floor is a travesty. It was obviously mental when it was announced and it’s only got more mental in hindsight.

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It's not Orton's fault that the WWE was, at the time of the branding of that Edge match, being run by a man whose brain has been dribbling out of his ear for about 20 years. And it was a decent match as far as unnecessarily long wrestling matches go!

He has consistently solid matches with everyone. Does he do the same spots? Yes. But who doesn't? I like watching wrestlers who seem to be actually enjoying what they're doing and seeming to be comfortable in the role. I'm not saying he's not had boring spots in his career, I'm talking about his status right now. He's been great and the crowds have responded to it, too.

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3 hours ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Whoever came up with that branding is a fucking lunatic and the fact it ever got off the cutting room floor is a travesty. It was obviously mental when it was announced and it’s only got more mental in hindsight.

I always assumed it was following what the interviewer said spontaneously (Caruso?) Which made mad lockdown Vince decide to use it. That said it could have been planned from the start which is even more maddening. 

I think everyone's said the key ones although some others like Rollins are creeping in there for me now. He has reinvented himself and is popular but we've had his face on screen for far too long. 

Once the drugs and alcohol subsided from wrestling along with a decent money elsewhere it's like people decided they would behave and sit in the equivilant of a cubicle in wrestling collecting cash. I wouldn't mind if these people just became jobbers and then backstage for the most part ala Jamie Knoble but Natalya and Ziggler types keep getting reheated like shit ready meals

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12 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said:

That wasn't quite the point I was making, if you read back.

No, and maybe I should have responded to the whole post. I guess wrestlers are like comedians. You might think one is great but someone else won’t. I haven’t rewatched that match back but I remember it felt like watching a double ironman match, just plodding along and boring. Which also sums up my faults on Orton. An absolutely decent hand in the ring, but bland and dull with no character. I’m pleased you like him, but I don’t think he brings anything to the table that other wrestlers on the roster do.

Edit: And as I wrote that, Brock comes out wearing a Cowboy hat and a Canadian Tuxedo and he was a wrestler people complained was too dull, but look at him now.

Edited by Hannibal Scorch
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