15 years since the Benoit family tragedy

[Supremo]

2 hours ago, Michael_3165 said:

Was he a prick?

Before they knew what happened, and in an earnest attempt to pay tribute to Benoit, the best story Triple H could come up with was about him bullying another wrestler into doing so many squats that he couldn’t walk afterwards. Doesn’t suggest he was a particularly nice bloke. Even if it didn’t come out that he was a murdering cunt, imagine if that was the type of anecdote people told after you died! Haunting.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Supremo

[David]

6 minutes ago, Supremo said:

Before they knew what happened, and in an earnest attempt to pay tribute to Benoit, the best story Triple H could come up with was about him bullying another wrestler into doing so many squats that he couldn’t walk afterwards.

It wasn't that long ago that PE teachers in British high schools were doing that, so it's hardly the mark of someone who is harbouring a dark personality with potential to kill. Benoit was always intense as they come, and he took the business of wrestling far too seriously (like a lot of other wrestlers and fans do) but the stories that have emerged after the fact mostly scream of sensationalist third and fourth person bullshit to sell books.

Benoit had a lot of good friends in the industry as well, didn't he? Triple H admitted that he didn't really know him all that well.

It's not the most interesting answer to the whole situation, but he did what he did because he was suffering from brain damage. Exact same as the NFL players who suffered the same condition. 

[BomberPat]

I think it's far more likely that "loving and kind family man" was the bullshit cover story concocted after the fact about the violent, sadistic, bullying, wife-beating family murderer than people tried to slander his good reputation after he murdered a child.

[David]

2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

I think it's far more likely that "loving and kind family man" was the bullshit cover story concocted after the fact about the violent, sadistic, bullying, wife-beating family murderer than people tried to slander his good reputation after he murdered a child.

That's what you think? Based on what?  I'd probably buy into that as a possible theory if it wasn't for the medically proven damage his brain showed post-mortem. And the many other examples of NFL players and so forth behaving in a similar fashion. We're probably quite lucky that when those who "only" killed themselves eventually flipped out and their brain short-circuited altogether, they weren't in the vicinity of other people. Sadly, a few were. And Benoit was one of them.

I'm more of the belief that he wasn't a sadistic child murderer to begin with, but a worsening condition after years of wrestling led to the incredibly damaging symptoms that go hand in hand with CTE, which include confusion, anger, depression. Especially to the level that he was shown to be suffering from it. 

The medical expert who tested his brain actually claimed that "Chris's damage was extensive. It was replete across multiple areas of the brain. It remains one the worst we have seen."

That, in my opinion, is the primary reason he killed his family. That's also most likely the reason for any number of instances of erratic or weird behaviour the months and even years leading up to that point. 

Again, it's not an excuse for what he did. I'm certainly not in the camp of having him put in any Hall of Fame or given any airtime in the future by WWE, but to disregard the devastating condition he was suffering from and instead just say "yeah, looking back he actually was always a wrong 'un" because we're hearing stories post-event or reading it in books.

[BomberPat]

I think he was a sadistic bully, with plenty of stories to back up that description, most of them overlooked in the years leading to his death because stories like "forcing people to squat until they pissed blood", routine bullying and abusing of rookies and non-wrestling talent, were all passed around as fun bants and playful jokes on shoot interviews and among wrestlers in those days, and not rightly recognised as the actions of a violent sadist. To say nothing of Nancy's allegations of domestic abuse years earlier.

I've never once argued that his brain injuries and drug abuse weren't hugely significant factors in what happened - I mention his head injuries on the previous page of this thread. But the idea that the pattern of behaviour that's clearly evident in every story of what Benoit was like as a person is somehow less believable than the "lovely friendly family man, this was such a shock that nobody saw coming" narrative that WWE were happy to propagate. 

[CavemanLynn]

Have the timeline of stories about Benoit ever confirmed how much of that later sadism and paranoia was there before the steroids and head trauma?

Benoit is one of the guys I think less of in terms of in-ring as time goes on. Just like Dynamite Kid (and to a lesser extent, Rollerball Rocco), and later Davey Richards, the spectacle is in how hard they're going, both from a work rate perspective and a stiffness perspective. It's amusing watching the occasional interviews with guys who worked with them, who laugh nervously about how "hard" they made them work from the first bell, while their eyes tell you they hated it. It seems reductive to point to the common physical traits of short stature compensated by massive muscular over-development, but it's mad that they're from the same school as what turned out Bret and Owen Hart, two arguably far better workers without any of the stiffness, thuggery or apparent self-loathing. Kid might have been knocking blocks off with his hook lariat, but it was Bulldog giving guys taps with the inside of his bicep to rapturous applause later.

Benoit may well have been an utter cunt before anyone got hold of him, but he must have been subjected to an environment that exacerbated and accepted if not downright encouraged that kind of behaviour. Violence begets violence, and I can certainly imagine a comparatively diminutive colourless kid like Benoit being subject to some heinous bullying and stretching. Something/someone made him choose to work the way he did, to continue with the headbutts and high-angle drops well after he knew what they did to him. Then the cheers come, and they validate that approach.

Benoit was a perfect storm of all the shitty attitudes, egotism and madlad bullshit that was/is rife in wrestling locker rooms. 15 years too late that we had #SpeakingOut which tried to publicly broach the archaic attitudes and abuses.

Edited May 25, 2023 by CavemanLynn

[Snitsky's back acne]

37 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said:

 

Benoit is one of the guys I think less of in terms of in-ring as time goes on. Just like Dynamite Kid (and to a lesser extent, Rollerball Rocco)

Wash your mouth out!

[Michael_3165]

7 hours ago, David said:

Is it really all that different though? As far as the musician example, I guess it would be like saying that we can separate the art from the artist when it comes to people like Keith Moon and Vince Neil, for example, who both killed people, but can't do so with Benoit because the art was what eventually caused the tragedy.

We could ask if Keith Moon and Vince Neil would have become drug-addled booze merchants who eventually were responsible for the death of another person if they hadn't been involved in the music industry? Perhaps, but it could be argued that the music industry and the trappings and lifestyle afforded by it at least partly led to their lifestyle choices and the decision they made to drive while drunk.

I know there was books that came out after the fact that claimed that Benoit was a prick and secretly had a dark personality all along, but it's worth remembering that before all that happened he was generally liked by most people and considered to be a relatively quiet, unassuming family man. 

Sure, he was a bit of a weirdo when it came to certain things, was intense as fuck, and there was people who didn't like him, but I don't remember anyone really saying too much about him in a derogatory fashion when he was alive.

It all has a bit of a "now you mention it, he was a bit off..." vibe to it, which we see when the pleasant, friendly guy next door turns out to be a mental axe murderer who buried people in his back garden.

I suspect that is more a reflection of the industry at the time and what shit they enabled and accepted tbh. How many wrestlers over the years have been give excuses for abusing partners, abusing drugs etc. If it is a toxic environment its widely seen as normal. You see it in police, healthcare etc

 

[IronSheik]

Yeah a popular wrestling Instagram clip site wrote "rest easy Chris" last year which I felt was highly disrespectful to the atrocities he'd committed and their remaining family. 

So many hillbilly fans still go on about getting him in the phony ass Hall of Fame also. By their logic if Ted Bundy had been a great wrestler they'd also want to honour him in a Hall of Fame. 

Also, the flying head butt was a worked move, some lazy journalists said his concussions were a result of that move which I always found ridiculous. 

[Cannibal Man]

On 5/25/2023 at 12:18 PM, David said:

PE teachers in British high schools were doing that, so it's hardly the mark of someone who is harbouring a dark personality with potential to kill.

that sounds about right TBH

[Tommy!]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:44 AM, David said:

he was generally liked by most people and considered to be a relatively quiet, unassuming family man. 

In wrestling though, which sets the bar lower than an ants nutsack. Him wanking in the wardrobe or making people squat until they start pissing wasted muscle tissue was "just a laugh", much like others being cunts.

[Chris B]

7 hours ago, IronSheik said:

Also, the flying head butt was a worked move, some lazy journalists said his concussions were a result of that move which I always found ridiculous. 

Benoit leaping into a flat forward bump from a height so regularly was likely a factor in his concussions.

Concussions can be a result of full-body impact as well as straight head trauma. It's the sudden impact, especially when it can't be controlled. It's one of the reasons American football tackles caused so much - it wasn't that they were headbutting each other. It's that the impact still effectively rattled the brain.

Think whiplash rather than head-on collision.

[The King Of Swing]

Didn't Harley Race try to warn wrestlers about the diving head butt?

[Statto]

I recall reading something about Harley saying he wished he'd never invented it.

[TheScarlettChad]

Dynamite Kid was damaged from it too. Yes it was a worked move but it still wasn't safe.