Tamura Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Supremo said: May as well have been throwing yourself directly onto concrete. Something AEW don't do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavemanLynn Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 It's a question that comes up repeatedly (often in a "back in my day..." way) but one I've revisited since I started to get back into working (well, training) recently. Stepping out of the bubble for a number of years really puts things in perspective in terms of what constitutes a good, fun wrestling match, and I don't think it's anything like what most trainees and young workers think it is. Sadly, I think the propensity for high risk spots, complex sequences and bar-raising is the wrestlers working for themselves rather than for the audience. Too many times I've seen the move get a pop instead of the wrestler, and I think that's workers' own hubris selling themselves short. You also have to realise that the majority of the crowd have no idea what taking a complicated wrestling move feels like, so the killer high risk dives and flip bumps might get an oooh because of the percussive noise and the understanding that "it must hurt", but it doesn't have that gut reaction of an eye poke, elbow in the ribs or a kick in the nuts where the audience KNOWS "that DOES hurt". Context is necessary too. You work for your audience, your place on the card, and the size of the show. Just yesterday in my Facebook feed, I saw clips from three shows in front of 20 people involving apron and floor bumps. That's at the bottom level. Going to the top (or close), it's why I've never clicked with the Bucks. As an example, why the thumb-tacked superkick when they faced the Lucha Bros? OK, it was a grisly spot, but why was it there? Why did they have it planned? What had the Lucha Bros done to warrant it? Why in the cage? the answer I found for all those was "because it was a PPV, so everything needs to be MORE!" No. Everything needs to be better, whatever that means for the story you're telling, and not the meta story you claim to be telling over years of TV and career trajectories, but the story in that angle in that show right now. It's horses for courses, and every show and match is (should be) different. There'll always be 'spot fests' and daredevil workers risking their health. I personally have had more fun coming back to the ring keeping it simple, jaw-jacking and reacting, and crotching myself in the ropes instead of taking second rope bumps. Judging by the crowd reactions, audiences do too. I've seen a lot of good matches with young talent end on a damp note when the high-speed move tennis finish just drains the crowd. wrestling can be dangerous, but doesn't need to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 I agree, wrestling is dangerous especially if you can't fly out of Saudi Arabia afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted March 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2022 While moves and spots appear more dangerous it definitely seems to me like wrestlers get injured a lot less than they used to. I remember in the early to late 2000s it seemed like half the WWE roster got neck surgery. I think today it's a combination of safer rings, lighter schedules, better health care, wrestlers having smaller more athletic builds better suited to wrestling rather than just being huge masses of body builder muscle ripe for tears and wrestlers just genuinely being more health aware and taking care of themselves and not off their tits and popping pills. So while a reverse hurricanrana today might look dangerous as fuck it's probably safer than weeks on the road roided to the gills taking bodyslams on a ring as hard as concrete every night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HobowithaShotgun Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 I do worry for the likes of Sammy and Darby who seem intent on killing themselves every match and without the muscle mass to absorb some of the punishment. Sammy's swanton on the ring apron in there recent match was so so stupid and unnecessary. PCO is doing these spots all the time too at his age and it can't be good but at least he's built a little bigger which might help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 I think that they need to really scale back much of the shit they do. Guys are having shorter careers and many more injuries than ever before. That's not to say that would equal entertaining matches as our attention spans have decreased in the past 30 years. I am all for longer careers and healthier retirements for guys. We don't need to go back to the 80s steroids and heart attacks. Just get a middle ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Nick James Posted March 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2022 Aren't people having shorter careers through injury etc because the education has come a long way? People now can see where their brain is turning to mush or necks are fucked long before they are paralysed or lock the dogs in the enclosed pool area? Obviously that is a massive sweeping statement, and doesn't cover everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 We probably seen more people work hurt in the past than what we do now where it’s more acceptable to say you are hurt and get pulled. I don’t see anyone in the state say a kurt angle was for most of his post wwe run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 51 minutes ago, Louch said: We probably seen more people work hurt in the past than what we do now where it’s more acceptable to say you are hurt and get pulled. I don’t see anyone in the state say a kurt angle was for most of his post wwe run. I think you're right. If they were pressured to power through like Edge or Angle back in the late 90s and 2000s most would be in wheelchairs now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonmist Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Don't most non big spots hurt or take damage essentially anyway. Surely Hogan going out on the road and doing a leg drop most nights must have fucked his hips and lower back. I imagine there are plenty of moves that don't have a wow factor now but must surely take a massive toll in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIDDUM_N_STYLE Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 1 hour ago, westlondonmist said: Don't most non big spots hurt or take damage essentially anyway. Surely Hogan going out on the road and doing a leg drop most nights must have fucked his hips and lower back. I imagine there are plenty of moves that don't have a wow factor now but must surely take a massive toll in the long run. I’ve often wondered if Hulk would have had a more prolonged career if he saved the big leg drop for SNME and PPV matches and used the Axe Bomber clothesline to finish matches at house shows or the rare occasions he’d be on Superstars or Wrestling Challenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamaras-Tash Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Michael_3165 said: I think you're right. If they were pressured to power through like Edge or Angle back in the late 90s and 2000s most would be in wheelchairs now. Make your mind up, literally 2 posts before this you say the opposite Edited March 1, 2022 by Kamaras-Tash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonworden Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 9 hours ago, BomberPat said: Do you? All but the tiniest of trainee shows I've been to have been filmed. Even small promotions have their own streaming services, and smaller ones are on YouTube. There's not really such a thing as "no intention of it being broadcast" any more outside of the family friendly/holiday camp style circuit. I knew someone would be more pedantic about this. Perhaps I should have extended to say in a professional way rather than just single can/phone clips etc. Basically I mean where the show gets a fair few viewers through whatever platform, most wrestling around the world doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted March 2, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 2, 2022 6 hours ago, RIDDUM_N_STYLE said: I’ve often wondered if Hulk would have had a more prolonged career if he saved the big leg drop for SNME and PPV matches and used the Axe Bomber clothesline to finish matches at house shows or the rare occasions he’d be on Superstars or Wrestling Challenge Not to be all “business was different then” and all that but the live gate was a hell of a lot more important when SNME was a thing, and Hogan wouldn’t have drawn half what he did if word got out that you’ll pay for your ticket and transport to head to Nassau or the Meadowlands once a month to see him not do his finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonmist Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 28 minutes ago, air_raid said: Not to be all “business was different then” and all that but the live gate was a hell of a lot more important when SNME was a thing, and Hogan wouldn’t have drawn half what he did if word got out that you’ll pay for your ticket and transport to head to Nassau or the Meadowlands once a month to see him not do his finish. Probably quite a fair point as in the 80s and 90s the tv was basically an advert for house shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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