The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[OzExile]

The crowd were class and Cena nailed it.

 

Hopefully Dom Dom and Liv can break free of the JD deadweight and go on and have heel runs with belts. Dominik is just great at the moment. 

[DavidB6937]

3 hours ago, Kfogg1991 said:

Yeah personally I kinda liked Cenas promo while it was fittingly childish and fitting with his market he's a hero (you were mean to me and bullied me so I beat up someone unconnected or undeserving) but then Cody came out with a entrance that lasted longer than him being in ring where he did nothing to the man who violently attacked him leaving him bloody and embarrassed, just quickly spoke from a distance and left. He wasn't being paid by the hour he had stuff to do.

But the point was he didn't need to do that. He felt bad for Cena. He felt embarrassed for Cena. At least this version of Cena. As he said, he was basically a whiny bitch and he absolutely was, and it worked really well.

No massive makeover. No changes to please everyone. Just a guy who has had enough, and it's the most natural story you could tell with him because it's the most believable. 

Timing wise perhaps it's a bit off as we know people were genuinely behind him recently, but as this is the last time we'll get a chance to do this then fuck it, let's just go for the ride. Feel those crowds. Enjoy the energy. It's a rare opportunity that we can either enjoy or ruin by nitpicking constantly.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I didn't particularly like Cena's promo, but I appreciate what (I think) they were trying to do.

The heel turn had been built up for so long, that pretty much every path they could have chosen was probably going to be 'cool' or 'popular' with the live audiences. A badass, nasty Cena is probably going to get better babyface reactions than normal Cena (or Cody, for that matter). So, I think they found the narrow path that might help them diffuse the half-and-half reactions; slightly weird, AI-pretending-to-be-a-mean-girl jargon, whiney dickhead.

Fair play to them for actually trying to create an act with JOHN CENA that people genuinely don't like. I'm not sure how they get this character turned back around by December, though.

So, I appreciated what they were doing, and I thought it was very well delivered... the plot holes just became a bit much for me. And I don't say that lightly. I'm a wrestling fan, I've made ignoring plot holes an art form.

But, it's been years since Cena's had the sort of reaction from the crowd he's saying made him turn. He's been treated like a God for ages now.

Also, if this was a personal turn inspired by him finally cracking after years of bullying by the toxic audience... why was it activated by The Rock? How does that work? (The Rock being involved causing confusion and nonsense probably shouldn't be a surprise at this point).

So yeah, I struggled to overcome that. And, like Supremo, the babyface/heel bit I hated and when I saw that the official WWE twitter had posted 'NO NEW LOOK. NO NEW MUSIC. YOU GET NOTHING.' I wanted to throw up. Stop it at once, you wallies.

Cody was great though, and established an interesting dynamic for the next few weeks. I also thought Cole's 'what a prick' promo afterward was good, and cemented how hard they're trying to make Cena actually disliked.

I'd say it was promising, but they need to get out of the quicksand that is The Rock's involvement. Give it an explainer or fuck him off entirely.

[simonworden]

11 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Also, if this was a personal turn inspired by him finally cracking after years of bullying by the toxic audience... why was it activated by The Rock? How does that work? (The Rock being involved causing confusion and nonsense probably shouldn't be a surprise at this point).

So yeah, I struggled to overcome that. And, like Supremo, the babyface/heel bit I hated and when I saw that the official WWE twitter had posted 'NO NEW LOOK. NO NEW MUSIC. YOU GET NOTHING.' I wanted to throw up. Stop it at once, you wallies.

Cody was great though, and established an interesting dynamic for the next few weeks. I also thought Cole's 'what a prick' promo afterward was good, and cemented how hard they're trying to make Cena actually disliked.

I'd say it was promising, but they need to get out of the quicksand that is The Rock's involvement. Give it an explainer or fuck him off entirely.

I don't know if it needed immediately addressing but I assume/hope that Rock will be the one that's got in Cena's ear and bent him to his will. Either originally to make some sort of new super group he wanted to run or to counteract exactly what happend and cody telling him where to go. 

I don't trust mad old Dwayne to follow through but the logical cycle is that Cena goes through this run where the fact he's been manipulated starts to become abundantly clear wih the faces trying to make him realise it. Eventually leading to him turning back around to finish off his run. 

[air_raid]

Heel Cena was superb. I thought the content and delivery had a lot in common with how Hogan spoke at Bash At The Beach 96, and what they have in common is that there was clearly a lot of the truth in there. The best villains have justification for what they’re doing that makes them easy to understand and when Cena talked about his feelings, I believed him.

Cody played it pitch perfect too. Came out, said what he wanted to, didn’t suck up to Cena’s legacy too much, had no interest engaging him in a “promo battle” and left.

Nobody has mentioned Dwayne, still.

[SpykeDudlei1]

Really enjoyed that opening with the red hot crowd giving Cena hell. I know there were still the “Let’s go Cena…Cena sucks” chants but as I said to my wife this felt more a case of fans investing in the storyline of his turn rather than the old days of the kids chanting “Let’s go…” and the late-teen/adult males responding with the “sucks” part. I know that was based partly on the fact that some (a lot?) of his in-ring work was see-through and patchy - STFU being a prime example - but then just became the thing to do a bit like fans STILL using “what?” (side note: should be lifetime bans for anyone still doing that in 2025).

I enjoyed that Cena’s promo felt like it came from a place of genuine anger and pent up frustration because of the past. No matter how hard he worked and the countless days of grinding in and out of the ring, it still didn’t earn him full respect.

I did initially think why is Cody coming out all smiles for their first confrontation since the turn and not wanting to twat him into next week but as he went on to explain his feelings towards “whiny bitch” Cena, it sort of helped soften it somewhat. He’s going to get his hands on him at some point and this wasn’t that moment.

As mentioned, no reference at all to The Rock seems odd.

Finally though, my main gripe about it was that Cena (and later Cody) kept pushing the “for 25 years” line. He debuted in 2002. I realise it’s an industry of lies and/or exaggerations but it’s not like announcing an attendance where unless you count every single person yourself, this is a simple case of folk being able to do the maths of 2002-2025.

[Guest]

This definitely felt like it was the plan all along, before the Rock got involved with his "I want your soul" malarky, because it made no sense as part of that, but a lot of sense on its own.

I loved the idea that years and years of pent up frustration finally got to him, and I'm assuming part of it will be that yes, he'd finally got the fans onside, but then they moved on to their new toy, and that was the thing he actually couldn't take, that after all that, when he'd persevered, they just moved on. I thought Cena executed it brilliantly, even though he's doing the standard WWE "I didn't turn on you, you turned on me" Vince era heel turn, him actually like getting into an argument with them, presenting himself as the abused spouse was great. 

It wasn't a home run though, for a few reasons. 

"I'm not a babyface, I'm not a heel, I'm a human being" was eugh. 

Cody's promo seemed to be suggesting that they were moving to an evolution of Cena's character already, towards the end of the first time we've seen it, which is well weird. 

This might just be me and my sensibilities, but it's a bit uncomfortable that in 2025 that someone having a significant mental health episode is a heel, and that Cody calls him a whiny bitch and is meant to be cheered. I know it's wrestling, but Cena's presentation isn't "Selfish egomaniac", it's "having a breakdown from decades of abuse". 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2025 by Duke

[The King of Old School]

Enjoyed most of it, I like Seth more than most but his segment wasn't needed at all here.

Thought Breaker and Penta looked superb at the end and made the IC Title look a huge deal.

Just a shame that they won't let them wrestle one on one, no chance they resist the urge to get Balor, Dom and probably a couple more that have no business being in there.

[SaitoRyo]

First full episode of WWE TV I've watched from start to finish live in forever. I thought it was alright, but not exactly something I'd want to watch every week. Two and a half hours is just a bit much for me in one sitting and I don't think the pacing of the show is that great. Saying that, if they're doing the next couple from the UK/Europe I'll probably check them out because of the kind start time and lack of televised football. 

Case in point on the bad pacing, kicking things off with the 25-minute-long Cena/Cody promo. It was alright and I'm sure WWE are chuffed with the reaction Cena got, but it wasn't the most inspiring promo in the world, was it? Felt very much like something Vince McMahon would have written to be honest (and maybe he had a hand in it, given him and Cena are still mates). Good delivery, but not sure about the content. I'm sure it'll get better and more intriguing as we've got another month of TVs before 'Mania. Hated the 'not a babyface, not a heel' line. Get over yourselves. 

Penta/Kaiser was fun and they worked hard, but it just demonstrated some of the problems I have with the modern style. I'm all for action, but barricade-walk ranas, planchas, chair shots, announce table bumps, a Mexican destroyer and then Penta's finisher on the chair were a bit much for me. Penta needs to tighten that shit up as it looked like he killed Kaiser on the finish. He sure does look cool, mind and, while there'll never be 'antoher Rey Mysterio', Penta can certainly be their new masked star for the future. 

Didn't care much about either the Nile/Kai match or the women's title contract signing. Sorry.

Jey Uso is over, but he's a bit shite, isn't he? Rubbish spear to finish Theory with and then a really sloppy dive over the top. The dive would've maybe looked more impressive if we hadn't seen Penta do a much better one in the opener. 

The tag match between Rey/Lee and American Made was a lot of fun. It's astonishing how good and smooth Rey still is, considering his age and the wear-and-tear on his body after a 35-year career. Those stem cells must really fucking work. He's the best.

I don't care about Seth Rollins and never will. Would have much preferred to hear from Punk here. Alas...

Main event was decent and Breakker continues to look like an absolute BEAST. Pissed myself laughing at the new nickname they were putting over for him, mind. 'The Unpredictable Badass'. Which one of the writer's kids came up with that one, I wonder?

[WyattSheepMask]

7 minutes ago, SaitoRyo said:

 

Main event was decent and Breakker continues to look like an absolute BEAST. Pissed myself laughing at the new nickname they were putting over for him, mind. 'The Unpredictable Badass'. Which one of the writer's kids came up with that one, I wonder?

[mim731]

7 hours ago, Supremo said:

Do you remember the tank?

Not to go on a tangent, but my favourite thing about the DX tank thing, is that aside from not even being that seminal a moment in terms of the way they harp on about it, it's not even the best tank-based moment they've done.  

[Pinc]

More than not mentioning Rock, I thought it was strange that Cena didn't say the turn was to help him get number 17. It's the perfect way to counter the 'why now?' plot hole after he's been cheered for half a decade. 'The clock is ticking and I need to break the record at my last Mania' explains the desperation and adds stakes to the match.

[Supremo]

Jey Uso and a mystery partner vs. A-Town Down Under next week suggested a reunion with Big Jim.

But in Glasgow? When they seem hell bent on surrounding Jey with as many geeks as possible?

[BomberPat]

7 hours ago, Supremo said:

I laughed out loud at the vignette Hunter aired on himself, about how fucking great he is and how that return from injury in 2002 was the greatest thing ever. Weirdly no mention about how Hogan politicked the shit out of him a month after Wrestlemania. Anyway, it just made me smile. For all Vince’s sins, at least he had the humility to tell people not to thank him at the Hall of Fame. By contrast, Hunter is putting himself in as the headline act and spending the weeks beforehand getting everyone to take turns wanking him off. Such a loser.

I watched the start of the show, the first RAW I've watched any of since I was in the US a couple of years ago, because a wrestler friend messaged me saying it was on live and asked if I'd watched the Cena promo. I figured I'd check it out, and actually laughed out loud at the opening of the show when I realised that poor, shy and retiring Triple H who just wants to get on with doing his job in private and never wants to made a fuss of or put on television even does the "Then, Now, Forever" voiceover at the start of the show. Just the most powerfully insecure man who ever lived.

 

As for Cena, I don't know if it was by luck or design that they ended up doing this promo in front of this audience. It could have been an all-time stinker in front of a flat American audience, but getting the volume of boos he was getting elevated it massively.

The Bad: I'm with pretty much everyone else I've seen comment on it, in that I hated "I'm not a babyface, I'm not a heel, I'm a human being". If someone said that on AEW I bet Bully Ray would mine a month's worth of podcast content out of complaining about it. I think he hammered the "What Do I Get?" point far too much, and I didn't like the comparison to an abusive relationship. Most of all, it felt like this was a promo that Cena's had in his back pocket for a decade - he could have done this exact promo as a heel turn at any time during his main event run, and I expect there were times that he probably wanted to. Because it didn't acknowledge The Rock, or Cody Rhodes, or his efforts to get a 17th World Title, or the actual material facts of his heel turn. It was a classic WWE "You People" post-heel turn promo - probably one of the best of the genre - but it shouldn't have been that, because he didn't turn on "the people", he very specifically turned on Cody, and sided with The Rock. But you wouldn't know it from this promo.

The Good: I like sticking with the same look and the same music, but just doing everything slower and more deliberately. I liked the general sense of "I've done everything for you, and what have you done for me lately?", I'd just have liked to have seen that thought finished and connected to specifically why he sided with The Rock and why now; maybe acknowledge how he hasn't won a big match in a long time and he had to change if he wanted to get the title again. Same goes for "What Do I Get?" - I like the sentiment of how even now, even when he couldn't have more obviously turned his back on the fans, people still approached his heel turn as, "oh, what will his new music be? What will heel Cena look like?", that he's still a  commodity to them; I think that works really well as a motivation, I'm just not sure he connected all the dots in this promo. I liked how much silence he left early on, just letting the crowd do their thing, and I like how still he was for a lot of it - when the crowd were doing dueling "Let's Go Cena/Cena Sucks" chants, he just stood perfectly still, rather than pandering to both sides and playing it up the way he normally would. I think that's why I didn't like the "What Do I Get?" stuff; it veered into silly babyface Cena promo territory, when he was much better here staying calm and slow.

Mostly, I liked Michael Cole calling him a prick. I think that did as much to cement that this is a proper heel turn as anything Cena could have done. 

I'm interested to see where it goes when Cena actually gets involved with Cody properly. At the moment they're just promo-ing across each other, it's difficult to even consider last night an interaction between the two. 

[air_raid]

45 minutes ago, Duke said:

"I'm not a babyface, I'm not a heel, I'm a human being" was eugh.

I liked it. Works into trying to lash out at all the perceived smarks who have been dying for him to be a heel for years (the ones who cheered when he made that "perhaps a little heel turn" line that time) and might be tempted to cheer now he has. It was him being, like Cody intimated, a crybaby who nobody should want to cheer for. Might has well have sat down in the corner having a full on strop saying "What about Cena? What about ME?"

It was during this segment I actually realised how much I love Cody as champion. Previously I've mentioned that its a shame he hasn't been able to work anyone we really gave much of a chance dethroning him because of either timing (Kev was never taking the title into Mania by the time the Rumble happened) or just not being in that spot to dethrone him (Styles, Paul, Solo). But then I realised, he's done the best with what's been given him and when he comes out with the belt and gets in the face of John Cena, it's incredibly easy to just accept "this is the man." It's Bret Hart at Survivor Series 92 when Mean Gene says he's beaten The Mountie, The Berzerker, The Model, Papa Shango and Virgil in title defences. Doesn't matter that those are names he should have beaten, he's still believable on top of the tree. At least Cody doesn't have to worry about being sat on during the contract signing for his first Mania as defending champion!