The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[Slapnut]

31 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

I did enjoy the Rollins/Punk segment, though and it’s the first time I’ve said this about Rollins for a long time. As much as I want to see Punk/Reigns, I want a slower build - Wrestlemania next year seems too soon for what this story could be. Rollins/Punk can be a step along the way in this story, while Reigns does whatever he does at Wrestlemania - perhaps the Rock match, perhaps something else entirely. 

The problem with Punk though is that we’re always a stage dive away from a broken foot or a dirty look away from him smacking someone in the chops so if they end up dragging it out too long we may never end up getting the match. There were so many matches left on the table in AEW, I hope the same thing doesn’t happen here.

[RedTwoster]

10 minutes ago, Slapnut said:

The problem with Punk though is that we’re always a stage dive away from a broken foot or a dirty look away from him smacking someone in the chops so if they end up dragging it out too long we may never end up getting the match. There were so many matches left on the table in AEW, I hope the same thing doesn’t happen here.

That’s true - but (famous last words…) he seems to be behaving himself, and I don’t think an implosion is imminent. Injury is a greater concern, and for me that’s even more of a reason to draw out his feuds and have him do more out-of-ring stuff. I’m hoping he’s just been unlucky so far, as his return to WWE has been one of the highlights of 2024 for me.

[Snitsky's back acne]

Kofi and Woods - those gaslighting bastards!

E has to have already been medically cleared. I cannot imagine this does not lead to his return.

 

[BomberPat]

2 hours ago, LaGoosh said:

Do they? I'm not sure I agree with that. I would say the best heel stuff is when they are massive utterly despicable arseholes and you want to see them get beaten up. I don't think muddying the water helps with that.

A good heel is one who thinks that they are completely justified, not one that you think is completely justified. It means they act consistently, rather than just being a cartoon villain, and have some believable motivation.

WWE kind of got it wrong for years in that a lot of their heels were right, and a lot of their babyfaces were arrogant bullies.

But you want a heel (at least some of the time) to be someone you look to and think, "he had a point, but he's gone way too far" - you understand their motivation, but you disagree with the conclusions they've drawn from it and the actions they've taken as a result. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

32 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

That’s true - but (famous last words…) he seems to be behaving himself, and I don’t think an implosion is imminent. Injury is a greater concern, and for me that’s even more of a reason to draw out his feuds and have him do more out-of-ring stuff. I’m hoping he’s just been unlucky so far, as his return to WWE has been one of the highlights of 2024 for me.

I think the injury stuff is slightly over egged too (tempting fate); the issue was in AEW, similar to Edge in a way, he flew too close to the sun. Despite his age he decided he wanted to wrestle every week and I just don't know that the human body works that way at his age and physical condition. He's never been an elite athlete, he's got significant wear & tear and he was trying to do slingshot lariats every week on TV.

The access to WWE rehab and heal facilities, plus the more sparse schedule probably makes it easier to manage his body.

[DavidB6937]

I really loved the New Day stuff. It just felt real, emotional and believable because we know the tight bond these guys have. And whether it's a logical jump to Kofi/Woods together or not, that's not really the point. It doesn't have to be a 2+2=4 situation.

It's a tight group who have a massive emotional journey together and these things don't always end in a smart or logical fashion, same as any relationships and marriages etc. So it's perfectly believable to me that Kofi and Woods would feel some negativity and abandonment towards Big E during a time where they've really struggled to find any success.

Instead of blaming themselves they're blaming him. They're struggling with him not being around. These things often get twisted and blown out of proportion, so it felt like one of the most real segments they've had with a group in a long time.

[RedTwoster]

1 minute ago, DavidB6937 said:

I really loved the New Day stuff. It just felt real, emotional and believable because we know the tight bond these guys have. And whether it's a logical jump to Kofi/Woods together or not, that's not really the point. It doesn't have to be a 2+2=4 situation.

It's a tight group who have a massive emotional journey together and these things don't always end in a smart or logical fashion, same as any relationships and marriages etc. So it's perfectly believable to me that Kofi and Woods would feel some negativity and abandonment towards Big E during a time where they've really struggled to find any success.

Instead of blaming themselves they're blaming him. They're struggling with him not being around. These things often get twisted and blown out of proportion, so it felt like one of the most real segments they've had with a group in a long time.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the logic behind it was fine - it just felt very rushed, at a time in which they’ve typically paced these things out. Perhaps there’s a reason for that - maybe Big E has given them late notice to say he plans to leave when his contract expires (which is apparently soon) - but I felt a bit lukewarm towards it. I’d also like to see Kofi and Woods as a singles act; the prospect of them challenging for the tag titles again, even as heels, does nothing for me.

[Mr Butternut Squash]

1 hour ago, RedTwoster said:

I didn’t really like the segment…they’re at each other’s throats for months, apparently plan to split, then Big E pissing them off leads to them suddenly being good, and deciding to stick together? It felt a bit out-of-nowhere and a bit rushed. 

I did enjoy the Rollins/Punk segment, though and it’s the first time I’ve said this about Rollins for a long time. As much as I want to see Punk/Reigns, I want a slower build - Wrestlemania next year seems too soon for what this story could be. Rollins/Punk can be a step along the way in this story, while Reigns does whatever he does at Wrestlemania - perhaps the Rock match, perhaps something else entirely. 

I thought it was just me. It was an excellently performed segment but I just couldn't buy the Kofi character saying that, and it took me right out of it.

[Supremo]

My favourite bit going today. Most relatable thing on TV. I think I do it with him every single time. Synchronised. Seth’s music hits and almost involuntarily an “ah, fuck off,” falls out of my mouth.

Credit where it’s due though. This was Seth’s best night since Wrestlemania. He had loads of heavy lifting to do in that (fantastic) opening segment, all the callbacks and interweaving of the characters and storylines, and he mostly nailed it. Zero cackles, too.

Former UFC Fighter CM Punk throwing the worst punch of the year was really funny though.

Spectacular show overall. One of the best of the year. It’s frankly ridiculous how much everything is cooking right now. Both in the opening segment and the New Day Celebration was where it shone brightest. Masterful stuff. It’s like we had twenty years of bullshit just happening, nothing ever mattering, but now they’re using all that material to pretend this was always a well-plotted, intricately planned narrative. Seth turning on The Shield is now credited for creating the Tribal Chief, in turn creating The Bloodline and all that followed. The New Day randomly having twelve Title reigns just to fill TV time now has all this gravitas and meaning. Big E and Kofi winning their World Titles just because Vince was in a good mood and threw them a bone now feels like pivotal moments in their history.

You have to hand it to Hunter. This isn’t him getting fruit baskets just for scripting people to say, “belts,” any more. It’s proper, clever storytelling with a ridiculous amount of interesting characters and stories, all impressively interconnected. I spoke the other day about Tony Khan’s current booking feeling like he just shook his action figures up and randomly chucked them into a, “Babyface,” or, “Heel,” pile. WWE’s current booking feels like they’ve got this twenty year old box of LEGO, all random pieces that never matched or went together, but they’ve started building all these super impressive  structures out of it. It’s amazing.

I swear, you can see the momentum in everything and everyone right. When you’re hot, it’s like you can’t fail. Finn Balor had one of his best nights of the year. A real hoot. Great heel. Can’t wait to see Gunther smash him up. I mean, fucking hell. Even Karrion Kross cut a great promo, building to a match I’m now excited to see next week!

New Day’s implosion was one of the best Raw segments of all time. Good lord. He’s been on TV all of ten minutes and Big E might be Babyface of the year. That was phenomenal. A real curve ball, in the best poasible way. I hope/assume this means he might be cleared. Man needs to come back now more than ever. Get his revenge on these pricks. There’s a genuine Wrestlemania Co-main event here now, if Big E can come back with a partner to fight Kofi and Woods. I spent far too long on the school run trying to think who could team with Big E. Seems the perfect spot to bring John Cena in. Cena and Big E are mates in real life, aren’t they? It’d be perfect!

Do not. I repeat, do not call Dolph Ziggler!

Edited December 3, 2024 by Supremo

[TheScarlettChad]

1 hour ago, Slapnut said:

The problem with Punk though is that we’re always a stage dive away from a broken foot or a dirty look away from him smacking someone in the chops so if they end up dragging it out too long we may never end up getting the match. There were so many matches left on the table in AEW, I hope the same thing doesn’t happen here.

Everyone seemingly loves him backstage, I'm not saying he isn't a dick at times, but when exactly is he going to smack someone? He didn't in WWE from 2005-2014.

[DavidB6937]

6 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

Don’t get me wrong, I think the logic behind it was fine - it just felt very rushed, at a time in which they’ve typically paced these things out. Perhaps there’s a reason for that - maybe Big E has given them late notice to say he plans to leave when his contract expires (which is apparently soon) - but I felt a bit lukewarm towards it. I’d also like to see Kofi and Woods as a singles act; the prospect of them challenging for the tag titles again, even as heels, does nothing for me.

It felt quite jarring and surprising but then sometimes I think that's a good thing. I don't think all the storylines necessarily need predictable pacing and it's good to play with expectations. I guess the key thing is for me it didn't feel like a shock for shock's sake like some things can.

Of course not everything will work for everyone but hopefully it'll turn into something that works for you eventually.

[RedTwoster]

1 minute ago, Mr Butternut Squash said:

I thought it was just me. It was an excellently performed segment but I just couldn't buy the Kofi character saying that, and it took me right out of it.

I think they made a mistake by going after him so hard - if it was a bit more passive aggressive or subtle, it might have worked better for me. Rather than going hard at him for not returning to the ring, going after him for not being with them as a manager sooner - or Kofi acting disappointed and upset rather than straight-up angry. I just didn’t believe it.

1 minute ago, DavidB6937 said:

It felt quite jarring and surprising but then sometimes I think that's a good thing. I don't think all the storylines necessarily need predictable pacing and it's good to play with expectations. I guess the key thing is for me it didn't feel like a shock for shock's sake like some things can.

Of course not everything will work for everyone but hopefully it'll turn into something that works for you eventually.

Oh I’m sure it will, and it speaks volumes for WWE that I didn’t like something because I didn’t think it was as good as other storylines - compared to five years ago when it would be a case of liking something simply because it wasn’t awful. It’s nice that I can be slightly anal about an otherwise excellent show. I look forward to every WWE show I watch right now, and what more can you ask for as a wrestling fan than that.

[Retro Red]

I think it’s less they suddenly decided not to split, Woods turned heel weeks ago within the context of the team, Kofi hadn’t and that was eroding their relationship. I see this as Kofi’s breaking point, attacking E provided catharsis for both and recognition that (for Kofi) Woods was right, and that’s solidified their bond. As bastards.

[Supremo]

1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

But you want a heel (at least some of the time) to be someone you look to and think, "he had a point, but he's gone way too far"

Going forward, this should be called, “A Hangman’s Tale.”

Is this Kofi’s first heel run? Similar to Rey Mysterio and to a lesser extent Brian Danielson, it feels like a crazy transgression to have him play a baddie. I’m so disappointed in him! 

[MVP RULZ]

35 minutes ago, Supremo said:

Going forward, this should be called, “A Hangman’s Tale.”

Is this Kofi’s first heel run? Similar to Rey Mysterio and to a lesser extent Brian Danielson, it feels like a crazy transgression to have him play a baddie. I’m so disappointed in him! 

Weren't the New Day heels for a while around 2014/15 just after debuting as a team

I'm sure they started out as babyfaces with the gospel gimmick but that never took off and we're turned heel after a month or two.

They then became more of a comedic heel group before organically turning face due to the likability of the 3 and they've remained that way since.