The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[The King of Old School]

1 minute ago, BomberPat said:

the promo was so bad and nakedly disingenuous that I can only assume, given the "here to make money" line afterwards, that it's by design. 

The problem isn't that he didn't do worked shoot stuff, the problem is that they signed someone who's biggest selling points are his mic work and the hold he has on the Chicago market, and he cut a dog-shit promo to crickets in Chicago. If it wasn't intentionally the start of a "sell-out Punk" angle, or at the very least a rehash of what AEW tried to do with him saying that he was happy to be there and work with upcoming talent while wrestlers who knew him called him out as a hypocrite, then it's a really bad start. If it is the start of that angle, it's still a bad promo.

When?

[d-d-d-dAz]

7 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

 

The problem isn't that he didn't do worked shoot stuff, the problem is that they signed someone who's biggest selling points are his mic work and the hold he has on the Chicago market, and he cut a dog-shit promo to crickets in Chicago.

No, he didn’t. He cut an average promo in Nashville.

The worst thing about the whole thing online has been that everyone who was always going to hate it are pretending they watched with an open mind and hated in anyway. Those who wanted to love it are doing the same in reverse.

It was just fine, but it’s going to become utterly tedious quickly if every week the hot takes are that what he’s done is either the best thing ever or the worst.

Edited November 28, 2023 by d-d-d-dAz

[BomberPat]

my mistake, didn't realise the show was in Nashville. Watched the promo in isolation, assumed they would still be in the same town as the previous night, as figured that was still standard practice after one of the Big Four PPVs. I'll hold my head up on that one.

It was still a shit promo, though. 

[Lorne Malvo]

I thought it was a bang-average promo and had me eye-rolling in places ("I'm home," ugh) but it was still better than his last set of AEW Collision promos where he just rambled on holding a burlap sack and nobody knew if he was heel or face.

Saying 'people were always going to love it/hate it' is a bit unfair, you can't possibly know if people are watching it with an open mind or not.

[Loki]

I feel they gave Randy Orton the feel good moment that we were all expecting to go to Punk.  Opening from a hot PPV angle, first hour ad-free, hot crowd... tailor made for Punk's return promo.  So the fact Orton got the flowers is very significant isn't it.  As he deserves as well, look at him, he's huge!

In fact the whole show really reinforced that they have no plans for Punk - everyone is moving onto their next feud as planned.  Even Nakamura (one Punk match that DOES interest me) is lining up Cody Rhodes instead.

So maybe they're re-running the NWO debut on Raw, where they came out and made out they were humble, and then proceeded to cause mayhem.  Maybe Seth Rollins' line about Punk being a hypocrite, followed by this promo, is hinting at a corporate heel Punk.  But equally, maybe they just want to fit Punk into the well-oiled machine that is WWE and see what happens.

Certainly about as far from the hot PPV ending as its possible to get though, so whatever the plan was, it's a swing and a miss really.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Loki

[Hannibal Scorch]

[RedRooster]

24 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

I think that’s a fair point. Except as demonstrated in AEW, he doesn’t perform like a top guy. Most of his matches were average to good, and it wasn’t long until he was out injured for a while. That seemed to be the cycle of his run. 

A few points here - 'performance' is about more than match quality. You look at the quality of his promos and feuds, and it's hard to deny that he was a standout performer during much of his time in AEW. The feud with MJF, the Eddie Kingston feud and his promo battle with Moxley - they were all top quality. There were missteps along the way, of course - but as you acknowledge, his time in the company was blighted by injury. 

As far as the matches go, he had stand out performances there too. It is of course subjective - but I think it's hard to fault the Kingston match, the MJF match, the Joe match at Wembley and several others. When it mattered, he brought his A game. There were some underwhelming matches - notably his match with Ricky Starks (although I'm not convinced Punk was to blame here), but on the whole he did well. 

28 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

And that’s the issue. WWE is a show aimed at kids, AEW is aimed at the lapsed fan. To a whole generation of their audience, Punk IS a nobody. And presenting him as a top guy can be possible. Until the bell rings. I’m here to make money, not friends was probably the most believable thing he said.

I mean, is it really? I think it's fair to say they target a broader audience; but I don't think 'it's a kids' show' really sticks anymore. What's kiddy about the Triple H era of booking? I'm not sure that AEW is aimed at the lapsed fan either. Bryce Remsberg described AEW as 'wrestling for nerds', saying they embrace the star-rating culture etc. It's simply a show aimed at a different kind of wrestling fan, which is fair enough. 

Ultimately though, I don't think your comments about his ring-work hold water when you consider his body of work since returning. There's a level of subjectivity, and his wrestling style might not be for you - but on the whole, his work was well received. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

I hate to go all @Devon Malcolm over it, but if LA Knight is good enough in the ring for PLE main events, CM Punk is going to be just fine. 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

2 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

  I went to bed after Cody’s big announcement and no plans to watch the rest

 

4 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Yet within two hours you are posting a picture of it. Maybe the reason the promo was so bang average was because no one could hear what he was saying as he is trapped in your head living his best life Scorchers 

[Supremo]

Competition alive and well. WWE and AEW competing to see who can capitalise on a hot pay per view the least.

[Duke]

I think the big cheer AJ Lee got when he mentioned her knocks on the head any "these fans won't remember him" debate, right?

[Hannibal Scorch]

15 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

A few points here - 'performance' is about more than match quality. You look at the quality of his promos and feuds, and it's hard to deny that he was a standout performer during much of his time in AEW. The feud with MJF, the Eddie Kingston feud and his promo battle with Moxley - they were all top quality. There were missteps along the way, of course - but as you acknowledge, his time in the company was blighted by injury. 

As far as the matches go, he had stand out performances there too. It is of course subjective - but I think it's hard to fault the Kingston match, the MJF match, the Joe match at Wembley and several others. When it mattered, he brought his A game. There were some underwhelming matches - notably his match with Ricky Starks (although I'm not convinced Punk was to blame here), but on the whole he did well. 

I mean, is it really? I think it's fair to say they target a broader audience; but I don't think 'it's a kids' show' really sticks anymore. What's kiddy about the Triple H era of booking? I'm not sure that AEW is aimed at the lapsed fan either. Bryce Remsberg described AEW as 'wrestling for nerds', saying they embrace the star-rating culture etc. It's simply a show aimed at a different kind of wrestling fan, which is fair enough. 

Ultimately though, I don't think your comments about his ring-work hold water when you consider his body of work since returning. There's a level of subjectivity, and his wrestling style might not be for you - but on the whole, his work was well received. 

The guy who botched the Buck Shot Lariat multiple times, and spent more time injured in his run than anything? He had three I would say great matches. Kingston, Dog Collar, and his last match at All In with Samoa Joe. CM Punk in the 20’s wasn’t the wrestler he was in the 00’s/10’s. And of course things change as you get older, but the time away did him no favours.
 

Just to be clear @RedRooster wrestling is better with strong competition, and I don’t want Punk to be a bust just because I thought he behaved like a massive baby in AEW at the end. But this wasn’t a good start, and I hope I’m wrong.

@Lion_of_the_Midlandsnot sure what your point is here. I’m literally commenting on what I watched and his promo. And I thought a crowd sign was funny. Who pissed on your cornflakes this morning?

Edited November 28, 2023 by Hannibal Scorch

[SuperBacon]

19 minutes ago, Lorne Malvo said:

Saying 'people were always going to love it/hate it' is a bit unfair, you can't possibly know if people are watching it with an open mind or not.

That is a fair point although there are plenty of people who absolutely hate WWE, who for some reason tuned into that, just so they can immediately moan about it online, and always were going to.

That to me is utterly mental. Find something better to do with your time*

 

*I'm about to watch a film called Christmas In Toyland.

[Nick James]

30 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

The worst thing about the whole thing online has been that everyone who was always going to hate it are pretending they watched with an open mind and hated in anyway. Those who wanted to love it are doing the same in reverse.

This is it, 100%. Its fucking tedious in the AEW threads, it's tedious in the WWE threads. It's smacks of elitism, ironically. 

Anyways, the promo, whilst being a bit shit, was passable for the absurd sight of seeing Punk stood with e WWE mic in front of his face. The line said to the camera and not to the live audience makes it quite clear the way they are going with this. I just wish it wasn't Seth, give the story to Drew instead.

[Lorne Malvo]

3 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

That is a fair point although there are plenty of people who absolutely hate WWE, who for some reason tuned into that, just so they can immediately moan about it online, and always were going to.

Oh no doubt. People have been watching WWE just to moan about it for years. I just think tarring all opinions with 'you were going to love it/hate it anyway' is a bit much, if we can't take any opinions at face value then what's the point in discussing them.

Personally, my love for CM Punk (I'd still have him in my top 5 wrestlers ever) is stronger than my dislike of WWE, but I still thought the promo was average and a letdown when they've got that many eyes on them.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the disingenuous nature of it and the 'I'm here to make money' line were them slowly planting the seeds for an eventual heel run at some point (the CM stands for Corporate Machine!)