Wrestling #MeToo #SpeakingOut

[CavemanLynn]

That's going to be one of the eye-opening things for a lot of lesser promoters - actual overheads, that do cut into your margins. You know, like a business.

For a two-hour show, take £75 per hour as your medic cost (£150), and say you have 10 performers, including refs and announcers, on the shows, getting £75 each. That's £900. Ring hire and venue hire at £400 each, to bring it to £1700. Now you have performers, a venue, equipment, and medical support to run a basic show. Round up to £2000 for extras like music. If you charge £10 a pop, that means you have to draw 200 to break even. That's not world-beating numbers, but probably a damn sight more than many budget for.

Edited August 5, 2020 by CavemanLynn

[Michael_3165]

On 8/3/2020 at 8:05 PM, poetofthedeed said:

Nah, they just won't book women. 

Whilst I hope you were joking I actually believe this could happen. So women get the backlash once again. Sad. 

[Michael_3165]

33 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said:

That's going to be one of the eye-opening things for a lot of lesser promoters - actual overheads, that do cut into your margins. You know, like a business.

For a two-hour show, take £75 per hour as your medic cost (£150), and say you have 10 performers, including refs and announcers, on the shows, getting £75 each. That's £900. Ring hire and venue hire at £400 each, to bring it to £1700. Now you have performers, a venue, equipment, and medical support to run a basic show. Round up to £2000 for extras like music. If you charge £10 a pop, that means you have to draw 200 to break even. That's not world-beating numbers, but probably a damn sight more than many budget for.

I'm not sure what promotes expect it's a huge cost running a decent show. Bare in mind many talents dont even get paid unless they are a name. I've been on shows where half the ppl were trainees and didnt get paid at all. It's almost become expected in some areas. 

[AVM]

38 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said:

That's going to be one of the eye-opening things for a lot of lesser promoters - actual overheads, that do cut into your margins. You know, like a business.

For a two-hour show, take £75 per hour as your medic cost (£150), and say you have 10 performers, including refs and announcers, on the shows, getting £75 each. That's £900. Ring hire and venue hire at £400 each, to bring it to £1700. Now you have performers, a venue, equipment, and medical support to run a basic show. Round up to £2000 for extras like music. If you charge £10 a pop, that means you have to draw 200 to break even. That's not world-beating numbers, but probably a damn sight more than many budget for.

Absolutely, these are really basic overheads in the context of the entertainment industry and really business as a whole. If you can't make an entertainment business viable with £2,000 of overheads (and the first cut back to make would be the £225-£300 medic cost), then it's probably not the right venture to be involved with.

Overall, I don't think it'll damage the industry too much were these measures brought into law. The people to go under would be the carnies with shady business practices. The big, relevant UK indies like Progress, ICW, Rev Pro, FCP, Riptide, Attack Pro will be alright. Most of the holiday camp guys will be okay also, but I'm less trusting in their word when they say they'll adhere to these changes. 

[CavemanLynn]

10 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said:

I'm not sure what promotes expect it's a huge cost running a decent show. Bare in mind many talents dont even get paid unless they are a name. I've been on shows where half the ppl were trainees and didnt get paid at all. It's almost become expected in some areas. 

I'd say it's definitely expected, based on the years I was involved. It's disgraceful that anyone should be expected to put their body on the line for free.

One worker mate of mine was stunned when he got a rumble spot at a Dixon show. Strolled out, stayed out of trouble, and got eliminated, then got paid more for that 5 minutes than he had in total for his previous 5 indie bookings.

[simonworden]

6 minutes ago, AVM said:

Absolutely, these are really basic overheads in the context of the entertainment industry and really business as a whole. If you can't make an entertainment business viable with £2,000 of overheads (and the first cut back to make would be the £225-£300 medic cost), then it's probably not the right venture to be involved with.

Overall, I don't think it'll damage the industry too much were these measures brought into law. The people to go under would be the carnies with shady business practices. The big, relevant UK indies like Progress, ICW, Rev Pro, FCP, Riptide, Attack Pro will be alright. Most of the holiday camp guys will be okay also, but I'm less trusting in their word when they say they'll adhere to these changes. 

I'd say you've underestimated the paramedic cost there if you think the hourly rate is accurate. Even a 2 hour in the ring show would surely require the paramedic to be paid to work for some time before and after the bell as well as during any intermission. Outside of some family friendly shows i've been to, most are at least 2 1/2 hours long and many of those indies last time I checked had shows running 3+ hours. 

 

EDIT: Sorry, reading the thread backwards, this has been covered. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by simonworden

[CavemanLynn]

It's the security of having something close to an impartial observer involved in the show, too. Anything that breaks the wrestling bubble by having outside eyes in and around the workings of an average show means that there's a stronger chance of taboos being broken. Some might see it as window dressing, placation, or purely symbolic, but it's all part and parcel of the opening up of the business to the outside world, and reducing the risk of any kind of abuse in the future.

[Jonny Vegas]

Promoters will just increase ticket prices and could any fan really claim they can't afford or wouldn't be happy paying an extra say £2 per ticket for the safety of the performers to be better protected?

[chokeout]

59 minutes ago, Jonny Vegas said:

Promoters will just increase ticket prices and could any fan really claim they can't afford or wouldn't be happy paying an extra say £2 per ticket for the safety of the performers to be better protected?

Promoters brains don't work like that. They will still see it as £2 per ticket they aren't getting and will cut it as soon as they think they can or they'll just get away with it. Need a cameraman, get a trainee with no experience to hold it. Need a paramedic, just have one of the trainees who's done a first aid course through his day job to be the name on the form.

Ideally there needs to be something at a higher level, similar to public liability insurance that means a venue can't be run without a qualified paramedic on site. If the venue aren't legally covered then they aren't going to let the shows happen. Take it out the hands of the Shitarse promoters. As mentioned above if you can't make money doing it responsibly and safely then it's not the business to be in.

[PBWFan]

In most areas of Scotland you’d struggle to find a private Paramedic for less than £300

In England I believe the St Johns trainees can volunteer for experience in the final years of study - however in Scotland the St Andrews service doesn’t offer a similar service

Even those who do elite football matches and most events in Scotland are not Paramedics - only enhanced first aiders.

Someone I know told me a story about a guy from St Andrews Ambulance who volunteered at events up here a while back but then was told his qualifications weren’t strong enough to meet the WWE “Level 6 Medic” which is required by a promoter if they have NXTUK talent on the show. This same guy had done many old firm football matches (stitched up players at half time) Commonwealth games etc - but technically wasn’t a Paramedic and didn’t meet criteria for a wrestling show

that in it itself is probably a small problem 

[poetofthedeed]

3 hours ago, Michael_3165 said:

Whilst I hope you were joking I actually believe this could happen. So women get the backlash once again. Sad. 

I wish I was joking, but if an American style wrestling show is running a community hall where they get changed behind the curtains beside the bingo setup, and are told they need a second area for women........ Bye bye 2nd on the card womens match. 

[PowerButchi]

Have Equity made clear their rules for people involved in Wrestling yet for joining? 

[simonworden]

15 hours ago, poetofthedeed said:

I wish I was joking, but if an American style wrestling show is running a community hall where they get changed behind the curtains beside the bingo setup, and are told they need a second area for women........ Bye bye 2nd on the card womens match. 

Well neither women nor men should be accepting of that set up anyway. A venue should have at least two private rooms for separated changing whether that is their main purpose or not I feel.  The only other way which I don't think fits the bill is if you have only one sealed room to alternate between when male and female performers can use it with clear signage on the door. This would be used in conjunction with a "clothes on" common area. 

Even toilet facilities seem lacking in some venues. There was one in which it felt awkward to go for a piss in a crappy leisure center I went to because the only toilets were in their only changing rooms, full of the wrestlers and I didn't think it was proper to bust in to the "backstage area". Went for a piss behind my car instead.

[thescottishchamp87]

Already Rev Pro UK have booked Will Ospreay for there show on the same night as Summerslam who was one of the names mentioned in the speaking out movement 

[Hannibal Scorch]

3 minutes ago, thescottishchamp87 said:

Already Rev Pro UK have booked Will Ospreay for there show on the same night as Summerslam who was one of the names mentioned in the speaking out movement 

Not that I’m saying it’s right, but I believe he was called out for being a rape apologist and for helping to blackball a victim because it was his mate who was accused. He’s a shit, but he’s not David Starr or Jack Gallagher