Paid Members Supremo Posted June 15, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) I don't think anything sums up WWE in 2020 more than this match did. Two guys having arguably the best in-ring match of the Covid era, Randy Orton putting in more effort than he has done in years, yet everything they did was completely undermined by all the bullshit surrounding it. The stupid promotion they could never live up to, the overdubbed sitcom crowd, the strobing camera cuts and the weird invisible camera angles. Fuck me. Why do they hate their performers so much? If they'd had this exact same match without all that bollocks it'd probably have been a Match of the Year candidate. When was the last time a WWE commentator sounded to be having such a genuinely good time as Samoa Joe had watching this? Has everything else about a pro-wrestling company ever worked so furiously against the talent of the wrestlers themselves? WCW at its worst, maybe? But yeah, imagine how good Randy Orton could've been if he tried his whole career! Edited June 15, 2020 by Supremo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Showtime Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 It's a really good match. I didn't actually like Bryan/Styles that much, maybe because of the ad breaks and the flat (to me) ending. So this for me was the best WWE match of the week at least. But I agree with Supes, the "crowd noise" was so distracting. I wanted them to try and play with crowd noise at some point during the empty arena shows, maybe find a solution, but it didn't work here. Samoa Joe did work, though. Has he been secretly training to be a commentator for years? Because it bloody feels like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted June 15, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 15, 2020 I thought it was really good. When they did that weird camera inside the ring for the lock up at the start, I was worried they were going to completely ruin it but they only used it again once (that I noticed). Restrained for them. Didn't mind the crowd noise generally. When they cut to the crowd, then it all looks phoney but the general noise is OK. Certainly added something to this compared to the silence of the original lockdown shows. Overhead camera was good. Hard cam being behind the plexi glass seemed needless when they've got so much control over the setup. Agree on Joe, he's absolutely great. He still has loads to offer in the ring, injuries permitting, but has a great second career waiting. Didn't think they did a good job at all of telling the story at the end though. Randy was a step ahead for most of it and proved he was better in the end. My 5yo said "Randy Orton's awesome". She's right. Of course it wasn't the best match ever. Was interesting the matches they chose for the intro package to see what they see as the biggest and best matches ever. Hogan/Andre is the most iconic, Savage/Steamboat was brilliant for the time, Rock/Cena is good but not great, Michaels/Austin was a changing of the guard but isn't iconic because they don't tell it that way and it's not close to the Bret/Austin matches or HBK/Taker from the year before and then they finish with the Taker/HHH "epic" they'd decided was seven stars before it started. This was as good as some of them and obviously way better than Hogan/Andre as a wrestling match. But it was just a gimmick. An odd one but not to be taken seriously. CGI Fink was a great touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakashi Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) Just finished watching. Edge was my favourite wrestler from after Bret Hart left until he retired. It's the first WWE proper match I've watched in about 2 years I think. Was great to see him still be so great. You dont lose the little important things.  But fucking hell, wwe are the worst. As said above somewhere, its like they actively try to ruin everything. Practically everything they added on top of this match made it worse. I cant believe it's the same company from even 5 years ago.  I've always knew they hated wrestling and they hated us, but it's never lept off the screen quite as much as it seems to these days. Edited June 15, 2020 by Yakashi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 7:05 PM, ElCece said: A live "sex show" with Matt Hardy and Beth Phoenix. Come on I'm trying to eat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Mr.Showtime said:  Samoa Joe did work, though. Has he been secretly training to be a commentator for years? Because it bloody feels like it. If he has, it definitely wasn't with WWE or he'd not be that good. Everything he says feels natural, insightful and genuine. He comes across as a guy who knows about what's going on, emphasises the right points, and adds where he feels something needs to be added. He's not there to get himself over. He's not there to get over stupid catchphrases or shill the company or whatever else. He's just a wrestler who has been around the block, has a lot of respect for the guys out there, and does his best to complement what they're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Yes I thought Joe was utterly superb on commentary and absolutely added to the match. Get him on there full time. Great match, great psychology. Really loved it. I suppose the get out for 'the greatest wrestling match ever' was that the sneaky bastard Orton changed it from a wrestling match into something else. Good work from both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonworden Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Agree with all said above. In the end the little MSG tease seemed really worthless I wouldn't have minded if they had tried to make the performance center a little more like 1980s MSG with a smokey affect and a classically styled ring I would've really enjoyed it aesthetically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted June 15, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, tiger_rick said: But it was just a gimmick. An odd one but not to be taken seriously. That’s an interesting point. Not having the motivation to watch Raw these past few weeks, I assumed there was an element of irony, with this whole, “Greatest Match Ever!” thing being a bit tongue in cheek. Watching the PPV though, I didn’t get that impression at all. Everyone on the show was taking it serious. You only had to watch the effort Orton was putting in to know they were genuinely trying to meet those lofty expectations. We’ve seen with the Money in the Bank match and the Street Prophets thing on this show what they’re capable of when they try to be funny. The main event was the polar opposite. To me, it appeared to be a stupid, mental idea a crazed old man would insist on, with the entire company then tasked with trying to make it work. Not to bring politics into it too much, but the whole thing reminded me of the Trump administration. You’ve got a guy in power who’s clearly deteriorating, doing and saying completely mad things, with everyone around him being forced to keep a straight face and make the best of whatever shit today brings. No wonder Vince and Trump are best mates. We did the greatest wrestling match ever. Bigly. Edited June 15, 2020 by Supremo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I'd wanted them to try canned crowd noise for a while but yeah...it didn't work at all. The main event was a very good match, spoiled slightly by some incredibly distracting touches. I suppose I should applaud them for trying something new, lord knows even failed attempts at innovation haven't been in their wheelhouse for the past few decades. I do agree that Samoa Joe was excellent in this, I'd not seen enough of RAW recently to fully appreciate how good he is at the commentary table, but he's a rare example in modern wrestling of a commentator actually enhancing everything around him. I'm a bit worried that they'll be thinking what  @Factotum  suggested - that he should be behind the desk full-time. I'm not quite ready to see his in ring career come to an end just yet, particularly when he's yet to perform at a Wrestlemania. I'm also pretty invested in seeing the guy win a World title at some point, although I'm not sure how realistic that is at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted June 15, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Supremo said: That’s an interesting point. Not having the motivation to watch Raw these past few weeks, I assumed there was an element of irony, with this whole, “Greatest Match Ever!” thing being a bit tongue in cheek. Watching the PPV though, I didn’t get that impression at all. Everyone on the show was taking it serious. You only had to watch the effort Orton was putting in to know they were genuinely trying to meet those lofty expectations. It's promotion. None of it is to be taken too seriously. It's the "greatest night in the history of our sport" philosophy. They'll have forgotten all about it in a month. Funny how they're not a wrestling company and the guys are not wrestlers but they'll happily promote the greatest wrestling match ever and splash it everywhere. Vince is odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted June 15, 2020 Author Awards Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, RedRooster said: I'm a bit worried that they'll be thinking what  @Factotum  suggested - that he should be behind the desk full-time. I'm not quite ready to see his in ring career come to an end just yet, particularly when he's yet to perform at a Wrestlemania. I'm also pretty invested in seeing the guy win a World title at some point, although I'm not sure how realistic that is at this point. He squashed Rey Mysterio at WrestleMania either last year or the year before. So he has performed at Mania - just! Thought the GWME was pretty good. Two very skilled performers giving it their all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I actually re-watched it again this morning, which is rare, but it was one of those things that's a lot of fun on the second go because you're not so distracted by them attempting different things with the visuals and sound. Instead it was just two guys telling a damn good story and giving it their all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briefcase Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) I really enjoyed the match and them trying to do things a little differently with the camera angles, in a world without live fans in attendance they can get away with these things and at least they are trying different things, its much better than the same old empty arena matches we've seen for months on end. I didn't even mind the pitched sound either, for me it added something to the match, took away the daft NXT fans at ringside shouting random things & it was no worse than the pitched sound that Smackdown used to have on its taped shows. Was never going to be the greatest match ever without real fans in attendance, but was good fun and probably the greatest match WWE have put on since lockdown and in empty arenas, for me anyway. Edited June 15, 2020 by Briefcase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted June 15, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 15, 2020 Rumour is that Edge was injured in the match. This return of his has been cursed. The way he looked in this match, imagine if everything had gone his way? No pandemic, no shit, overlong Last Man Standing Match at Mania, no over-produced nonsense here. He could’ve had an incredible run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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