The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

[Jazzy G]

59 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

The whole 'obvious' thing isn't necessarily down to the match itself though I don't think. It's the same with twists in movies and things like that where people say they guessed it like 5 minutes in and it completely ruined it for them. That isn't always down to it being too obvious in the movie. I can see why that ruins the enjoyment and the surprise and gives a whole new context to what you're watching but that's as much down to the viewer and their own expectations etc I'd say. So I bought into everything Hangman and Danielson were doing and I still felt like there could be a winner. Others didn't. I still think it was a fucking great match and really allowed Page to show he's on the same level as one of the best in the world.

There was what looked to be a lot of "ok, let's have a little rest and grab some water" going on during the breaks on the picture in picture stuff. I can understand it, but it the ITV version with nothing during ad breaks is going to make this match look more hard fought. 

[Infinity Land]

55 minutes ago, 69MeDon said:

60 minute time limit draws are a big part of pro-wrestling, though. At least, historically. Flair didn't call himself the 60 Minute Man just because he spent at least one hour each day sexually harrassing someone.

We're also talking about a generation of wrestlers that revived it on the early/mid 2000s US Indy scene. Of which we know TK to be a big fan.

 

[Chris B]

I think they achieved a hell of a lot with that match, both in terms of storyline and wider points.

Storyline-wise, neither of the last two champions could beat Danielson in the time limit. Danielson arguably had it won last time - Hangman likely had it won this time. Hangman gets some bragging points, but Danielson can heel it up about Hangman not getting the job done. Whether they go with a rematch soon or hold off, that's an easy rematch at any point soon. It also builds a Hangman/Danielson/Omega triple-threat at some point, which could be an amazing match.

Also, though, even without the win, it establishes Hangman nicely. Meltzer may not give it five stars, but it wouldn't be a surprise if he did. It's going to be a contender for any 'match of the year' lists as well as any 'best AEW TV match' lists just by virtue of it being the 60-minute one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying star ratings and MOTY lists are all that are important - far from it. But they're not worthless either, and in the long-term, this is pretty likely to be one of the most talked about matches AEW puts on. In the long run, that's got a lot of value, especially if AEW can convince the networks that it has value.

It's not so much about it being a great match - it's about it being remembered as a major match. WWE haven't been good at building that 'major event/big match' feel for a long time (willing to be corrected by people who actually watch it). If the networks can get on board with the idea that big matches can be major events and have value, with more understanding of how to build that, and to accept it's not a slam-dunk every time - that could be huge when it comes to contract renewals.

Rather than going with a generic feel, one thing AEW has been doing that's smart is individual stand-outs. Barbed Wire, thumbtacks and pizza cutters for controversy and the gore-hounds. Great tag matches for the lucha fans. Great technical matches for the Meltzer-fans. Over-the-top comedy stuff for the memes. If they can keep improving the women's matches, there's a genuine argument for 'whatever type of wrestling you're into, the best of it will be in AEW'.

[Factotum]

Apparently the match peaked at 1 million viewers towards the end, so I suppose it did its job in that regards.

[Loki]

For me, that was the best AEW match I've seen so far.  I'm not a HUGE fan of the AEW main event style as epitomised by Omega, Bucks et al, so this was a very pleasant surprise - particularly as I missed that there was a 1 hour time limit so started to get genuinely drawn in once it went about 45 minutes.

This never felt like two guys getting their stuff in and setting up the next "spot", or apeing early 90s Japanese tapes, this felt like a proper war.  I loved the slow start, the posturing, Danielson's annoying rope breaks.  Heel Hogan would have been proud.  

In fact, weirdly for me it felt a lot like a WCW style match - a lot of character payoff, brawling, rules shenanigans, blood, and moments where the performers just let the crowd carry themselves along.  Using the ad breaks for taking a breather was smart too, it meant the kept up the pace in between, and in a weird way the constant ads made it feel a bit MORE real.

It's nice to have a genuine babyface champ - and for all the modern twists like the mental health storyline, Page feels like an old school blue-eye face like a Von Erich, all suffering and comebacks.  Somebody mentioned nineties face HBK before all the crotch chops.  I guess if Rhodes is HHH, and Eddie Kingston is Foley, then Hangman can be HBK.  Who's going to be Bret Hart then - Danielson?  He's too much of a heel atm.

 

[Mr.Showtime]

I really liked Hangman v Danielson. Like some others I've read, I really did think heading towards the time limit that one of them could still pull it off. The longer it went, the more I realised (duh) that Hangman wasn't going to be tapping out, so it was down to him to power out a win. And that spot 50 minutes in when he landed on his feet after Danielson attempted a top-rope suplerplex, and smashed him with a clothesline, that was when I thought YES, yes by god Hangman can still win this! I was rooting for him more and more as the end neared. A draw seemed obvious at this point but I know that AEW knows that it's obvious, so I still had hope.

But also, at the back of my mind, I don't think it was the right time for Danielson to lose either. I was sad when the 60 minutes was up but it was a fun long ride for me. The champ is the man.

[Jazzy G]

27 minutes ago, Loki said:

For me, that was the best AEW match I've seen so far.  I'm not a HUGE fan of the AEW main event style as epitomised by Omega, Bucks et al, so this was a very pleasant surprise - particularly as I missed that there was a 1 hour time limit so started to get genuinely drawn in once it went about 45 minutes.

This never felt like two guys getting their stuff in and setting up the next "spot", or apeing early 90s Japanese tapes, this felt like a proper war.  I loved the slow start, the posturing, Danielson's annoying rope breaks.  Heel Hogan would have been proud.  

In fact, weirdly for me it felt a lot like a WCW style match - a lot of character payoff, brawling, rules shenanigans, blood, and moments where the performers just let the crowd carry themselves along.  Using the ad breaks for taking a breather was smart too, it meant the kept up the pace in between, and in a weird way the constant ads made it feel a bit MORE real.

It's nice to have a genuine babyface champ - and for all the modern twists like the mental health storyline, Page feels like an old school blue-eye face like a Von Erich, all suffering and comebacks.  Somebody mentioned nineties face HBK before all the crotch chops.  I guess if Rhodes is HHH, and Eddie Kingston is Foley, then Hangman can be HBK.  Who's going to be Bret Hart then - Danielson?  He's too much of a heel atm.

 

Punk was having a go at being Bret with the way he's going the distance with all the underneath talent. 

[Keith Houchen]

2 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said:

Punk was having a go at being Bret with the way he's going the distance with all the underneath talent. 

Plus Punk moans like fuck about everything. 

[organizedkaos]

29 minutes ago, Mr.Showtime said:

I really liked Hangman v Danielson. Like some others I've read, I really did think heading towards the time limit that one of them could still pull it off. The longer it went, the more I realised (duh) that Hangman wasn't going to be tapping out, so it was down to him to power out a win. And that spot 50 minutes in when he landed on his feet after Danielson attempted a top-rope suplerplex, and smashed him with a clothesline, that was when I thought YES, yes by god Hangman can still win this! I was rooting for him more and more as the end neared. A draw seemed obvious at this point but I know that AEW knows that it's obvious, so I still had hope.

But also, at the back of my mind, I don't think it was the right time for Danielson to lose either. I was sad when the 60 minutes was up but it was a fun long ride for me. The champ is the man.

Yeah with this being Hangman's first defence and the build up to his win I don't think it really ever felt like Danielson was gonna win. I felt the uncertainty in the match became whether Hangman could win or whether we'd see another draw, I was arguably more into the match the closer it got to the time limit. I don't think the idea was supposed to be a suprise draw as much as deliberately using that prospect to add uncertainty to the outcome.

If they play off it I think this'd be a good storyline. I've mentioned before I wasn't quite buying into the whole Hangman as champ thing as I'd started watching post him going on paternity so I never really got a lot of the emotion in his journey to the title. I understand those who'd followed the whole thing wanting his first defence to be a victory lap but I'm much more invested in his story now than if he'd won.

 

Also to mildly nitpick other complaints - they did do a DDT on concrete in picture in picture. This only stood out because by the third picture in picture I thought nothing would happen during the break so went and did the washing up, only to realise that's sods law meant that was the time something happened...

Edited December 17, 2021 by organizedkaos

[d-d-d-dAz]

I watched knowing it went the distance, and weirdly I think I’m kind of glad.

I got to just sit back and bathe in how absolutely tremendous Daniel Bryan Danielson is.

He’s the best wrestler of all time, for me. I’m not even using hyperbole, either. I genuinely think that. I think he’s the best all round performer, the best all round baby face and the best all round heel I’ve ever seen.

Every movement matters, everything ties into the story he’s telling. There’s no breaks from the internal logic of the match to get his other shit in (I’m looking at you Jeff ‘just been killed but now I’m going to leg it up a ladder’ Hardy and all the people you inspired).

He even skinned the cat as a heel. I don’t think I’ve ever even seen that accomplished. He went over the top, hung on, gave the cockiest grin you’ve ever seen and then buzzed back in.

The ending was exquisitely timed, too. Just an exceptional talent who I think will wrestle a match the length of an episode of Dynamite before long.

That said, I’ve just typed 6 para’s and not mentioned Adam Page once. And that, for me, is the issue with AEW at the minute. 
 

For the longest time Adam Page becoming World Champion was the hottest story in AEW, the logical destination. Everyone wanted it. But, by the time it happened… (don’t shoot me for this or ban me from the forum)…. I sort of think the company outgrew him. He feels a bit mid-card. Or like yesterdays man. He’s a weird combination, to me, of feeling not ready and like they missed the boat.

I don’t think he’s ready to be the flag-bearer for a company that boasts a superstar like CM Punk or an all-timer like Daniel Bryan.

I sort of just want to see the big names headline for a bit. Then when Omega gets back, Chuck him in. Same with Mox. My hunger for Hangman is… erm… gone, a bit.

God, I started this post really enthusiastic and now I’ve finished on a right downer.

Edited December 17, 2021 by d-d-d-dAz

[DavidB6937]

38 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

For the longest time Adam Page becoming World Champion was the hottest story in AEW, the logical destination. Everyone wanted it. But, by the time it happened… (don’t shoot me for this or ban me from the forum)…. I sort of think the company outgrew him. He feels a bit mid-card. Or like yesterdays man. He’s a weird combination, to me, of feeling not ready and like they missed the boat.

I don’t think he’s ready to be the flag-bearer for a company that boasts a superstar like CM Punk or an all-timer like Daniel Bryan.

I sort of just want to see the big names headline for a bit. Then when Omega gets back, Chuck him in. Same with Mox. My hunger for Hangman is… erm… gone, a bit.

God, I started this post really enthusiastic and now I’ve finished on a right downer.

Page isn't at the level of a Punk or a Bryan. He just isn't. But the wise move is to put him in there with guys like that to bring him up to that level. To show that he can hang at that level and he's capable of being just as good as them - and eventually better. It was always going to be a tough post-title win journey for him because the story leading up to that win was so damn good, as a lot of the face chasing the heel stuff is. It's often incredibly difficult to keep that momentum going as a good guy with the belt, and I don't think that's all down to it being Hangman or not being ready etc. 

I felt like he wasn't ready when he was facing Jericho for the title initially. But that played out over time. They made us fall in love with the guy. They made us genuinely care and want him to succeed. And I still want that for him. The 60 minute draw was a real strong step in the right direction in presenting him as more than a guy that got lucky over Omega on one night. He's now got the belief in himself and the crowd believe in him and he's now getting the chance to show how credible he is and how capable he is against the best guys in the industry. And the more he does that the more people will believe he's on that same level.

I'm sure Bryan is relishing the challenge of going out there and making Page look good, much like he did with Kofi Kingston. He's a master at getting all his shit in and never coming out of something looking weak in defeat. He has such a great brain for the business and how to lay a feud and match out so that they make both competitors look good. It's something that is lost in 99% of WWE's booking these days. Losses make people look stupid. Wins don't mean anything. Yet jump over to AEW and suddenly matches feel important and so many people come out of these PPVs or big shows looking stronger whether they win or lose.

And yeah, while it's hard to keep the heat and excitement for Page at the level it was, I wouldn't give up on him quite yet. Winning the title was only the end of one chapter of his career. Now it's time to build him into a much more legitimate champion and use these other guys that have been at the top level for years to do their thing and build the future of AEW with Page, and others like Jungle Boy, Darby etc. We have to remember this is all just the start for so many of them.

[d-d-d-dAz]

7 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Page isn't at the level of a Punk or a Bryan. He just isn't. But the wise move is to put him in there with guys like that to bring him up to that level. To show that he can hang at that level and he's capable of being just as good as them - and eventually better. It was always going to be a tough post-title win journey for him because the story leading up to that win was so damn good, as a lot of the face chasing the heel stuff is. It's often incredibly difficult to keep that momentum going as a good guy with the belt, and I don't think that's all down to it being Hangman or not being ready etc. 

I felt like he wasn't ready when he was facing Jericho for the title initially. But that played out over time. They made us fall in love with the guy. They made us genuinely care and want him to succeed. And I still want that for him. The 60 minute draw was a real strong step in the right direction in presenting him as more than a guy that got lucky over Omega on one night. He's now got the belief in himself and the crowd believe in him and he's now getting the chance to show how credible he is and how capable he is against the best guys in the industry. And the more he does that the more people will believe he's on that same level.

I'm sure Bryan is relishing the challenge of going out there and making Page look good, much like he did with Kofi Kingston. He's a master at getting all his shit in and never coming out of something looking weak in defeat. He has such a great brain for the business and how to lay a feud and match out so that they make both competitors look good. It's something that is lost in 99% of WWE's booking these days. Losses make people look stupid. Wins don't mean anything. Yet jump over to AEW and suddenly matches feel important and so many people come out of these PPVs or big shows looking stronger whether they win or lose.

And yeah, while it's hard to keep the heat and excitement for Page at the level it was, I wouldn't give up on him quite yet. Winning the title was only the end of one chapter of his career. Now it's time to build him into a much more legitimate champion and use these other guys that have been at the top level for years to do their thing and build the future of AEW with Page, and others like Jungle Boy, Darby etc. We have to remember this is all just the start for so many of them.

It’s a difficult balance though, right?

I think sometimes the worst WWE pushes have been when they’ve just whacked someone in amongst the big fish. More often than not, you don’t just grow to the same size as the bigger fish… you’re just exposed as a small fish.

I’m not saying that Page is necessarily in that spot, but had the company been held in stasis in 2020, he could have won the title from Omega, defended against Jericho, Mox, Miro, Archer … pick a name, you know, and it passes the sniff test.

The Page story, for me, elevated him to the level of credible world champion in the company that was.

But Punk and Bryan have raised the company bar for me, and I’m not sure he’s at a level where he’ll benefit by mixing with them right now. It might just be me, but I just feel like I’m constantly being reminded at the minute that Bryan is a much bigger star.

It’s a difficult position as they’ve not got many who are - Omega and Mox clear the hurdle I think, Jericho by virtue of his legendary status.

I dunno, maybe I’m not making sense and I’m just viewing the world through a WWE lens…. He just doesn’t seem to fit at the minute, for me.

Edited December 17, 2021 by d-d-d-dAz

[Guest]

Wanting someone to get the belt and then shitting on them as soon as they do, and claiming they aren’t as good as the real headliners is the kinda toxic shit that helped me move away from watching wwe. Hangman has just had a cracking 1hr match and didn’t look out of place in it, yet he’s apparently not good enough. Sorry but not every fan is into Danielson as we have seen from him having no impact on ratings in wwe and now in aew. He may be great wrestler, but that translates little to everyday people and makes them fans. His fanbase has always been the hardcore who will watch no matter what. Giving him the title will do nothing, at least with Hangman you have a chance of growth as his story grows. 

[JimmyAnderson]

The match itself was tremendous, wether you felt the outcome of it was obvious or not. The issue they've got now is what's next?

If Battle of the Belts is, as rumoured, only going to be on for an hour - I can't see the rematch being there. I'm not expecting another hour long between them but I'm also not expecting them to fit in Page/Danielson II as well as a tag title, TNT Title, women's title and possibly TBS Title (which will have been won the Wednesday before BOTB) match all within an hour. 

So either it's the first match on TBS (though I wouldn't be surprised if we get Cody/Sammy to mirror the first match on TNT) or they hold it off for Revolution for the rematch, which is still 11 weeks away. Obviously they could throw it on any episode of Dynamite really but other than the TBS debut they don't have any "big" Dynamite episodes coming up.

And if it's not Danielson challenging Page for the title at Battle of the Belts, who is?

[d-d-d-dAz]

29 minutes ago, Louch said:

Wanting someone to get the belt and then shitting on them as soon as they do, and claiming they aren’t as good as the real headliners is the kinda toxic shit that helped me move away from watching wwe. Hangman has just had a cracking 1hr match and didn’t look out of place in it, yet he’s apparently not good enough. Sorry but not every fan is into Danielson as we have seen from him having no impact on ratings in wwe and now in aew. He may be great wrestler, but that translates little to everyday people and makes them fans. His fanbase has always been the hardcore who will watch no matter what. Giving him the title will do nothing, at least with Hangman you have a chance of growth as his story grows. 

Dunno pal, I repeatedly referred to them as personal opinions and referenced them as perhaps not being popular.

Youve immediately jumped on it and called it ‘toxic shit’.

Maybe you’re the problem. Maybe you could just debate and discuss without being a mean spirited sod.

But, yeah, ill just shut up. 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by d-d-d-dAz
Language was a little rum.