Paid Members Tommy! Posted November 23, 2013 Paid Members Posted November 23, 2013 Also, since we're on about Triple H. His 97/99 DX schtick is so bloody cringe-worthy, I always remember thinking Triple H was least cool member of DX and watching clips back of what he was doing, I can understand why. He seemed to spend his time doing rubbish innuendos about his knob, which only Jerry Lawler seemed to react to. This 100%. Watching back old Raws from 98/99 recently I was amazed at how crap he was. Road Dogg and Billy Gunn were so funny, energetic and cool and X-Pac was so easy to get behind and root for. Triple H comes across like their lame older brother who hangs out with them because he doesn't have any mates of his own. He has really crap ring attire and awful hair. He's just embarassing. Also, I never understood his "let's get ready to suck it" line. It makes no sense and is super gay. Have you seen them going around New York on one in mid 98. HHH does an awful Indian accent and asks a chap wearing a turban "if I pull the end of it will it start your motor", or something similarly dreadful.
Mr Butternut Squash Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) The ground-pin/roll-around version was a bit odd, but I'm thinking the logic behind it is similar to the aeroplane spin - disorientate the opponent. I think it's the fact that it's a pinning move that annoys me. A really daft and contrived looking one. That never gets a three count. I don't have much of a problem with the aeroplane spin (or big swing) because it looks impressive and requires some strength, as opposed to the Toyota rubbish that requires your opponent to roll around for you. Edited November 23, 2013 by Mr Butternut Squash
Paid Members Murtz Posted November 23, 2013 Paid Members Posted November 23, 2013 It's frigging SURVIVOR SERIES tomorrow night. Surely the worst build to any SS ever?
Vamp Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 A rolling atomic stretch sounds like the kind of thing you think would be a good move when designing a wrestler for an e-fed.
Paid Members DCW Posted November 23, 2013 Paid Members Posted November 23, 2013 It's frigging SURVIVOR SERIES tomorrow night. Surely the worst build to any SS ever? Last Survivor Series that felt any way important to me was 2001,it's definitely not what it used to be. I honestly can't remember remember any matches from last years SS at all.
Paid Members Carbomb Posted November 23, 2013 Paid Members Posted November 23, 2013 A rolling abdominal stretch sounds like the kind of thing you think would be a good move when designing a wrestler for an e-fed. I don't think it sounds any more ridiculous than an aeroplane spin, and like the aeroplane spin and (until recently) the giant swing, it's one of those old moves that nobody really does any more - again, the whole thing's about dizzying your opponent, there's no real impact to it. It's a lot like those other rolling pins that don't have the stretch part. There's nothing "indy", "smarky" or "e-fed" about it.
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted November 23, 2013 Paid Members Posted November 23, 2013 If anyone listens to Stone Cold Steve Austin's podcast, you get a sense that he hates wrestling these days. He got interviewed by Wade Keller on PWTorch's live cast yesterday and he interviewed Keller, and Austin seems to have this passive aggressive attitude towards scripted promos, how wrestlers look, the ring style and all sorts of other stuff. He always talks about the ring style they do now, saying everything is to fast and the workers dont let you breath before the next move. Austin has that thing about him that Bret Hart and Ted DiBiase have. Where they wont come out and publicly slag the business. But I bet if you sat them down they'd seem bitterly disappointed about how the business has turned out. He was pretty critical of the Performance Centre, saying everyone might turn out the same using that sort of developmental tool. He's a really interesting bloke. He's been really open since he started his podcast.
Guest Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 If anyone listens to Stone Cold Steve Austin's podcast, you get a sense that he hates wrestling these days. He got interviewed by Wade Keller on PWTorch's live cast yesterday and he interviewed Keller, and Austin seems to have this passive aggressive attitude towards scripted promos, how wrestlers look, the ring style and all sorts of other stuff. He always talks about the ring style they do now, saying everything is to fast and the workers dont let you breath before the next move. Austin has that thing about him that Bret Hart and Ted DiBiase have. Where they wont come out and publicly slag the business. But I bet if you sat them down they'd seem bitterly disappointed about how the business has turned out. He was pretty critical of the Performance Centre, saying everyone might turn out the same using that sort of developmental tool. He's a really interesting bloke. He's been really open since he started his podcast. He comes across to me that he is itching to be asked how he would improve it. Don't disagree with much he says
Paid Members Murtz Posted November 23, 2013 Paid Members Posted November 23, 2013 It's frigging SURVIVOR SERIES tomorrow night. Surely the worst build to any SS ever? Last Survivor Series that felt any way important to me was 2001,it's definitely not what it used to be. I honestly can't remember remember any matches from last years SS at all. There's been plenty of SS since 2001 that have been important. 2002 had the first Elimination Chamber, 2003 had 5 or so cracking matches (my favourite SS), we had Nexus running wild in 2010 and The Rock returned in 2011. This one just seems the least built up compared to not only other SS, but other PPV's this year. It's shit.
Paid Members Fatty Facesitter Posted November 23, 2013 Paid Members Posted November 23, 2013 There's some solid matches on the card, but there isn't much cause for emotional investment in any of them, with no real short or long-term implications to be had. I'm more excited to see what transpires on Raw more so than I am about the PPV's these days. I think it's also safe to say that this is no longer one of the "big four" and effectively it's just another run of the mill PPV now.
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted November 23, 2013 Paid Members Posted November 23, 2013 Survivor Series 2009 was probably the worst build PPV they've ever done. Cena, HHH and Shawn Michaels didn't even feud. It was a long comedy storyline to build to the PPV. That buyrate was so bad they announced on WWE.com that Survivor Series was finished. They've been on and off for years about just dumping it. If its bad this year, to safe face with the stockholders, the name Survivor Series might be the blame again.
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 It's a shame, because there's so much scope for wicked storylines and subsequently awesome matches using the Survivor Series elimination format. You can have faction issues, like 2001's WWF vs Alliance storyline*, team ideals clashing, like 2003's Team Austin vs Team Bischoff, or you can use the 5 on 5 bouts to just load 3 to 5 running feuds into one match. This year much of it seems to be thrown together with little rhyme or reason.
Mr Butternut Squash Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) I agree with Austin and the old timers for the most part. WWE's had a fantastic year in ring and some of the big matches have been superb, but in terms of the week to week product I can see what he means with the "everything is too fast and the workers don't let you breath before the next move" criticism. Too often it looks like two guys walking through rehearsed steps rather than two wrestlers feeling out the crowd and riffing off of them and getting their characters over. Wrestling has always stuck to formulas - so it should - but now you see entire sequences mindlessly rolled out without any thought into what that particular audience or environment or occasion calls for. The post- Mania Raw Orton vs Sheamus match is an extreme example of that. It doesn’t even bother me that much to be honest and it’s certainly not a problem that’s exclusive to the WWE. It’s more a symptom of WWE's micromanaging of everything, which concerns me more. Too few guys bring any kind of ‘flavour’ to the ring also. There are no quirks or idiosyncrasies in the way they move or bump or sell. Obviously there are guys that bump ‘bigger’ than others but that’s not what I’m getting at. I miss Jake Roberts slowly crumbling to the floor after hitting the turnbuckle. I miss Harley Race getting himself into a tangle with the middle rope. I miss Bret running chest first into the corner. I miss the flailing and weeble-wobbling. I want the FCW Dean Ambrose not the one that's interchangeable with Orton/Sandow/Axel/Cody etc. The WWE's always had their own way of wanting things but that vision has grown narrower. Things like the scripted promos, the endless parade of lads dressed in their WWEshop T-shirts and pants and the stale as fuck formatting and presentation of the shows have been rightly criticised over and over. I don't think it's nostalgia tricks to say that the company has become increasingly bland and forgettable. Edited November 23, 2013 by Mr Butternut Squash
Whiskey_Jim Posted November 23, 2013 Posted November 23, 2013 I agree with Austin and the old timers for the most part. WWE's had a fantastic year in ring and some of the big matches have been superb, but in terms of the week to week product I can see what he means with the "everything is too fast and the workers don't let you breath before the next move" criticism. Too often it looks like two guys walking through rehearsed steps rather than two wrestlers feeling out the crowd and riffing off of them and getting their characters over. Wrestling has always stuck to formulas - so it should - but now you see entire sequences mindlessly rolled out without any thought into what that particular audience or environment or occasion calls for. The post- Mania Raw Orton vs Sheamus match is an extreme example of that. It doesn
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