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Butch And D-Mal's James Bond Learning Tree Thread


Devon Malcolm

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9 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

I posted my thoughts in the general movie thread. I wasn’t a fan 

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I didn’t think it was an emotional send off. Literally the message was after everything the only thing that can kill bond is a load of missiles. The family for Bond was for me a stupid plot device. Remi Mallick bought nothing to the table. Ana de Armas was the best thing by a country mile. The 007 bait and switch was predictable and I didn’t think Nomi was a good 00 agent. Some nice call backs and jokes but the whole thing was just meh.

 

Fair enough. 
I must be banned from that thread as I can’t see it 😀

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Spoiler

If you're into the Craig movies I think this is a very satisfying conclusion. For the most part they've been about creating a more vulnerable Bond, taking what Lazenby and Dalton brought to the role and pushing it further, and I think this film is a fitting conclusion to that. I think claims that this is true to the character of the books are largely a matter of interpretation and marketing (the Bond franchise has always said that with each actor) and probably a bit of a disservice to Craig who I think has tried to develop the character more than is on the page. 

I think the decisions to give Bond a definitive end and a family were brave ones. They certainly give the film more personal stakes and a sense of tragedy (which is ironic since I think this is one of the funnier Craig's). I think, given this, Bond's death is a bit of a misstep. I'd have preferred a more intimate death death than him being blown to kingdom come by missiles. 

One of my issues with this series of Bond movies is that they're not really parodying the idea of a British super spy saving the world but reminiscing about those days. So I quite enjoyed M doing something terrible and then seemingly getting away with it. 

The locations are filmed well, the stunts are good and the film combines the more science fiction elements with a sense of physicality quite well. It's more of an ensemble film and everyone plays their parts well. The new 007 doesn't feel particularly fleshed out but then there's no real need to. There's an awkward "we could exterminate your race" moment that stands out like a cybernetic eye.

I really enjoyed the score but some of the call backs might be overbearing for others.

There is a moment where there's a complete leap in the villain's plot which led to me being utterly lost as to what he was doing and why. I don't know if he wants to kill half the world, a percentage of it, to threaten to do so or to sell the technology. 

I think the film might become less satisfying on future watches. Its long, feels long and is quite episodic. There's nothing as bad as Casino Royale's highjinks with the landrover (which always takes me out of that film) or as infuriating as Spectre making Bond and Blofeld virtually brothers.

If you're not a Craig fan, this certainly isn't the movie to convince you. And I wonder where they go from here. I can't be arsed with making "James Bond" a code name or starting from the beginning. I'm not keen on casting a female Bond because I think there should be something better for women then turning a misogynistic character from the 50s into a woman. I think it'll be hard for them to turn back the clock and give us something akin to Moore and Connery because of the way they've conditioned their audience. Personally I'd be interested I them making period pieces (and I'd say Skyfall felt very inspired by heritage cinema) but I don't think they'd make enough money from sponsors and product placements to do it. 

 

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For me, the soundtrack, particularly the score that backed the climax to the film. I’ve listened to it a few times since and the feeling I had whilst watching it, it really has stayed with me. 
 

Spoiler

As a film, I absolutely loved it. I read a review prior to it that Daniel Craig outshines everybody he’s in a scene with. This is absolutely true, and not in a negative way. It’s ironic that there were claims of his ability to be a Bond originally, and now some that say Craig is one of the best ever.

The story, the cast, the characters all felt they served their purpose well. And I felt real closure for the story arc that started at Casino Royale.

Bond dying really hit me hard, having been watching them for over 20yrs. I’m really intrigued where the films go now.

 

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14 minutes ago, PowerButchi said:

Daniel Craig films aren't Bond Films. 

I think I have to agree, and maybe you can help me out here if you have not see No Time To Die, some spoilers inside

Spoiler

I'll be honest, I am not a Bond expert, I like some of the pre Craig films, but I wasn't a big fan. I have enjoyed the Craig films, as viewed as a separate franchise. The whole franchise up until Casino Royale (2005) may have had different actors as bond, but villains and stories seemed to be left in canon. Craig's version has brought people in like Blofeld and Dr No, given them completely different backstories and ignored anything from their previous encounters. These films feel more like a completely new reboot or cannon then the other 20 films. And had that been the plan, or that is how they wanted to move going forward that this was a new series, I don't think real fans would have been so angry.

Where do they even go from here. I think there were strong arguments that 007 and James Bond could have been multiple people assuming an identity which allows the change of portrayal and the longevity of the man. I even quite liked that as a plot device, allowing possibly a different ethnicity to be Bond. But, especially Skyfall, made such a big thing about him being James Bond that I don't think it will wash unless they reboot again and retcon. 

 

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LOOK YOU SHOULDN'T BE READING THIS FUCKING THREAD IF YOU DON'T WANT NO TIME TO DIE SPOILED AND I'M NOT GOING TO SPOILER TAG THIS IF YOU CHOOSE TO BE A BRENTON AND STILL READ IT ANYWAY.

 

No Time to Die was absolutely dreadful.

In fairness to it though, it was the logical and natural ending to Craig's run of films that opted for this dumb emotional and background arc that Bond has never needed and has probably poisoned the franchise with for years to come.

I felt bad in a way for Cary Fukunaga in a way, being left to deal with the aftermath of Craig getting his mitts on the character creatively, but I honestly can't think of a good decision this film made.

The action scenes are alright but barely memorable and the best ones were all in the fucking trailer anyway, which was schoolboy error number one.

Anna de Armas was a great addition - and she's in it for about 20 minutes. What.... why? Whose bright idea was that? One of the most sought after talents in Hollywood and she's barely in it. Nice one!

They made a huge issue out of Lashana Lynch being the first black female 00 agent, even though no other 00 agent in the history of the franchise has mattered a shit. Fair enough. And again, she gets fuck all to do. She gets to have a few jibes at Bond, kick one bloke in the throat, and then babysit Lea Seydoux and Baby Bond at the end. An absolute total waste of time. And what's the ramifications of (briefly) handing her the 007 designation only to give her nothing to build on if she ends up heading the franchise, or a branch of it, now that they've killed off Bond, knowing that a load of online neckbeard sock wankers will probably boycott the next one as it is?

Billy Magnussen could have been used as the new Felix Leiter? Gets fucked off after about 10 minutes of screen time. Its use of new characters was ridiculously shit. Where the fuck are you supposed to go after this? And they killed the old one as an afterthought, to Savio Vega golf clap heat.

As for Rami Malek - crap-accented 'Russian' villain with facial disfigurement? This is the series progressiveness Craig wanted? Malek is a terrible fucking actor as well and he really stinks this up while Blofeld dies by Bond touching him with fucking NANOBOTS in the only scene he gets. But No Time to Die actually doubles down on crap-accented 'Russian' villains, with David Dencik stinking this up as well.

Naomie Harris? Fuck all to do. Ben Whishaw gets more to do and apparently he's gay, so hooray for that I guess. Except he likes red wine and has cats just like all action film gay men do.

They made a massive issue of bringing back Spectre one film previously - only to kill the whole lot of them off in one scene, only to replace them with a crapper evil terrorist group. Absolutely no fucking point at all.

And now they've killed him. Which I don't mind in theory but now where do they go? If they want to do a James Bond film, they now have to go back to when he was a kid, and how do you make a James Bond action film about him arguing with Brother Blofeld over who ate the last of the Rice Krispies? Or they have Lynch has 007 now, except she's not because she gave it back to Bond for no reason at all, squashing that interesting plot development, but they've got nothing to build on.

At least Bond found his kid's toy though! 

I wasn't a fan.

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1 minute ago, Kamaras-Tash said:

 

I've never bothered watching any of them, remembered seeing the trailer for Casino Royale I'm guessing and just thought ah I may as well just put a Bourne Identity film on 

Precisely.

I love the Bourne films, they're all great except the Jeremy Renner one, which is still passable. But using that sort of template on Bond was stupid as they're entirely different characters. Bourne was great but it's been a pretty bad influence on the genre.

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Maybe I got lost in the emotion of it, which started when he called back to OHMSS early on in the film. Thinking back on that all he wanted to do was go off into the sunset with his new wife and hand in his licence to kill but it was cruelly torn away from him. 
I don’t think it’s actually that great a Bond film but with the history of just wanting a family and retiring, and then ultimately sacrificing himself for them was, in my opinion, beautiful and a great way to sign off the Craig arc. 
As mentioned by others not sure where they can go from here, I think James Bond has to be a man, and it has to be a real person as opposed to a code name, I don’t think we’ll see it returning to the days of Roger Moore, time has moved on and as someone said the audiences have been conditioned to expect different. Perhaps a Bond movie doesn’t work in the 21st century which would be a real shame. 

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Shaken And Stirred, the album of collaborations David Arnold did back in the 90s is on Spotify. Its a good 'un. 

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I liked No Time To Die a lot more than I liked either Skyfall (Home Alone 5) or SPECTRE. Both of those felt like bloated messes to me, and I was fully expecting this one to be similar - instead, it felt a lot tighter and more focused. A little episodic in places, sure, but it was clear throughout at least. And the entire opening sequence was really impressive, I thought, both in terms of character and action. The grave exploding was such a good moment.

I thought that Casino Royale was setting up something special, and the next few films failed to do much interesting with them. This one felt more like it was back on track, and I've always liked the hints of regret and loneliness in Bond (the first thing I ever read was the Living Daylights short story, so there's always been that element of Bond for me).

I'd be absolutely fine with no more Bond after this.

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3 hours ago, johnnyboy said:

One of my favourites.  The Thunderball rendition is cracking.  Bjork's version of "You Only Live Twice" which didn't make the album is worth seeking out too.

I only spotted it because I fancied listening to that Propellorheads version of OHMSS. What a banger that is. I'll definitely be hunting that down. I love David McAlmont's version of Diamonds Are Forever from it. 

Edit: I had a listen to that Björk one. It's cracking. Shame it didn't make the album. 

Edited by jazzygeofferz
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  • 3 weeks later...

Just got out of the cinema and thought it was a pretty perfect ending to the Craig set of films. Obviously there's a much wider conversation about Bond films to be had but it was an emotionally satisfying and emotional finale to something that hasn't actually finished. So a bit weird really but yeah. It got me in the right places I think and surprised me.

Definitely needed more Ana. That's the one thing not up for debate. And certainly reignited my Lea crush.

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