d-d-d-dAz Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 On a slightly separate note, you have to imagine Starmer is going to call for a ceasefire in Gaza as soon as today. He won't want to risk being behind the eight ball and having Sunak or Biden get there before him, plus it can potentially fill the gap we spoke about earlier of him needing something to chuck the progressive left. With the UN calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, and Australia, Canada and New Zealand all calling for a ceasefire, there is significant cover for him to do so and look credible whilst doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BigJag Posted December 13, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 13, 2023 I hope he shows a massive dollop of contrition. He should have shown support for a ceasefire a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 13, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 13, 2023 58 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I've always thought that voting should be legally required of every adult in the country. Even if it's just ticking a "none of the above" box, people should be legally required to engage in the political process. Even those people who have seen their entire lives and backgrounds given no support by anyone across the available voting spectrum? Why would you force those people to pick someone they do not support? Instead, how about we try and build a political system where a wider range of candidates and options are available? I just couldn't disagree more with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted December 13, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: Why would you force those people to pick someone they do not support? I wouldn't! That's why I specifically said "even if it's just ticking a "none of the above" box". People should be able to show abject hatred and anger that no one represents them at the polls rather than it being written off as "voter apathy" or whatever. Edited December 13, 2023 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted December 13, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 13, 2023 Give none of the above more meaning though. If it wins as an option in an election then everyone who lost to it is barred from standing for public office and elevation to the House Of Lords for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I wouldn't! That's why I specifically said "even if it's just ticking a "none of the above" box". People should be able to show abject hatred and anger that no one represents them. Doesn't not voting at all, or spoiling a ballot already do that? Edited December 13, 2023 by RedRooster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 13, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I wouldn't! That's why I specifically said "even if it's just ticking a "none of the above" box". People should be able to show abject hatred and anger that no one represents them. You did say that and this is what happens when you have had 2 hours sleep. That said, I still don't think it's productive or fair to force people to a voting booth just so they can say they don't want to vote for anyone. I think the act of not voting says that loudly enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted December 13, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 13, 2023 Just now, Devon Malcolm said:  I think the act of not voting says that loudly enough. I'm not sure it does. I think politicians mainly chase people they think will vote rather than trying to understand, appeal to and draw in the people who don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I'm not sure it does. I think politicians mainly chase people they think will vote rather than trying to understand, appeal to and draw in the people who don't. Ultimately though, how would you even enforce that? If people were legally required to engage in the democratic process, what happens when they don't? Do they get fined? What would happen if unexpected caring commitments were to prevent someone from leaving the house to go and vote? What if I intended to vote after work, but I finished unexpectedly late and could not do so? What if I was disabled, and had no transport on the day? What if I suffered from depression, and voting day was a 'bad one' and I couldn't face going outside? What if I was elderly, and it was icy outside on voting day and I didn't feel safe venturing out to cast my vote? Now that ID is required, what if I lost my ID or had it stolen? It's a law that couldn't really work, and could actually end up being unfair. Edited December 13, 2023 by RedRooster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted December 13, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, RedRooster said: Ultimately though, how would you even enforce that? If people were legally required to engage in the democratic process, what happens when they don't? Do they get fined? What would happen if unexpected caring commitments were to prevent someone from leaving the house to go and vote? What if I intended to vote after work, but I finished unexpectedly late and could not do so? What if I was disabled, and had no transport on the day? What if I suffered from depression, and voting day was a 'bad one' and I couldn't face going outside? What if I was elderly, and it was icy outside on voting day and I didn't feel safe venturing out to cast my vote? Now that ID is required, what if I lost my ID or had it stolen? It's a law that couldn't really work, and could actually end up being unfair. Yeah probably. I can't say I've put a huge amount of thought into the specifics or mechanics of a vague idea I had that will never actually happen would realistically work. But I think it's concerning and alarming how many people feel unrepresented by politics in this country and it's just written off as "voter apathy" or people don't vote because they feel "it doesn't matter" or "they're all the same anyway" and perhaps some kind of drastic action needs to be taken to address this properly. Rather than Tories chasing the OAP voters because they know they will actually bother to vote and young adults being basically ignored because it's assumed they won't bother to. Edited December 13, 2023 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, RedRooster said: Ultimately though, how would you even enforce that? If people were legally required to engage in the democratic process, what happens when they don't? Do they get fined? What would happen if unexpected caring commitments were to prevent someone from leaving the house to go and vote? What if I intended to vote after work, but I finished unexpectedly late and could not do so? What if I was disabled, and had no transport on the day? What if I suffered from depression, and voting day was a 'bad one' and I couldn't face going outside? What if I was elderly, and it was icy outside on voting day and I didn't feel safe venturing out to cast my vote? Now that ID is required, what if I lost my ID or had it stolen? It's a law that couldn't really work, and could actually end up being unfair. Well, you'd have to fundamentally alter how voting works. You couldn't apply it to our current election processes. This was good recently on the Australian system: https://hir.harvard.edu/compulsion-emboldens-democracy-a-deep-dive-into-australias-mandatory-voting/ But, TLDR; people can vote anywhere they want, pretty much, and there's a string of options for voting; phone, online, in-person. My soft, squishy liberal centre is squeamish about mandatory voting. I'd prefer - as you have to 'sign-in' in this country when you vote - an outreach programme for non-voters after the fact, trying to understand why they didn't vote so we could start to make our democracy more reflective of their concerns. But, that costs money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted December 13, 2023 Moderators Share Posted December 13, 2023 Isn't voting compulsory in Australia? I'm sure they've found a good way to work around at least some of those challenges, Rooster so I don't think we'd be starting from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted December 13, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 13, 2023 Incentivize it then. Every vote cast is worth £1 in the prize pot at each election, paid for by whoever runs the National Lottery. After each election 10 winners are drawn at random from the electoral register. If they voted they get 1 tenth of the prize pot. If they didn't their 10% rolls over to the next election. This only applies to General elections and By-elections. If the devolved parliaments want to set up their own scheme they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 Fantasy booking general elections. A new low for the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted December 13, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted December 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: Fantasy booking general elections. A new low for the forum And when it doesn't work we can blame CM Punk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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